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  #1  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:55 PM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Angry Teachers won't comply with IEP,

This is my first year as a special ed. teacher, I am the only SpEd in the school I work with K-12 and have 15 IEP students. I am at a loss on how to fix this problem. I've thought about giving a professional Developement day and giving a quick SpEd 101 or something. The previous teacher simply didn't rock the boat with the teacher and gave student more help than was needed sometimes givng them answers, so here I am trying to change the standards of the resource room and teacher DON'T like it. I now understand why the previous teacher did what she did. The previous teacher also modified the grading scale givng a point or two to keep IEP students from getting f's by doing that he let the student slip through the cracks. SO
I have students who are "flunking," and the only way I know to help them is keeping pusing them harder. I have asked the teachers to keep records of what modification they are using in their classrooms, so when the state walk in I can at least show them we have tried. I am not sure they are doing anyting I ask. Some teacher absolutely ignore the IEP modification even when I talk to them about it and explained they MUST follow the IEP. They claim the student is more capable, its not fair to other non IEP studenst ect ect...I have found most gen ed. teachers do not understand the IEP process or compliance rules. I can understand that but even when I tell them, they STILL refuse because they believe the student is more capable. I've tried to explain the IEP trumps all and to simply do the modifications as directed by the IEP. Honestly what am I going to do when the state comes in for a review and I have 2 or 3 students who aren't making passing grades? To cover my own butt if the teachers to keep RECORDS, document the modification they use I can say I tried (I'm not sure any are doing this either) show them the modified work, individual support in the SPED room ect ect... and the student simply hasn't done the work even with my help in the sped room. I do understand the gen ed teacher feelings, most of my students lack motivation, they don't care if they flunk, they plan on quitting at 16....
Some quesiton now, do most school use a modified grading scale for students on IEP is it illegal or what? I was told it was illegal and NOT to do it. How do I get my middle school and high school teacher to follow the IEPs. I am getting totally frustrated with them. DO student with IEP receive flunking grades on report cards, can they flunk a grade? If not how do you make the gen ed. teachers understand, and cooperate. I had a face off today with my elem teacher who claims the student is not an A student, and we are giving the student answer (we aren't) but as she puts special ed students should not get high grades? I was furious for being accused of giving answers, and furious with her for claiming special needs students don't' deserve high marks (A's). I feel like I am failing my students and failing at my job since I have students who are flunking. Most of my students honestly have NO motivation and even with one one one help they don't care, won't do homework, won't take responsiblity to work outside my classroom and its like pulling teeth to get them to work in my room and recieve even a low C. Then I have a teacher with this biased attitude for a student who does care, does the work but then recieves an F on a test he take in her classroom on the chapter he was getting A's on in my room the day before. I didn't know he was taking a test in her room either. He does do better in my room because he isn't scared of me, and he can think without feeling judged. Teacher who don't want to comply, students who don't care, and a teacher who judges on IEP students as stupid and need to recieve low grades.
Can anyone give some suggestions on all this?
musicllover
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:02 AM
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Chocolate_New_Orleans Chocolate_New_Orleans is offline
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let me clear my throat.....


you say that SPED teachers give the answers but get mad when reg ed accuse you of doing it. They are accussing the SPED teachers of that becauase historically, apparently, they have been

An IEP isn't a "no fail" policy. I have a SPED teacher that thinks if they have an IEP, that means they should pass, no matter what. He has even gone as far as to say "don't worry about failing them in 7th grade, let the 8th grade FCAT catch them"

and later you say the IEP students don't have any motivation, yet you think the reg ed teacher is not following the IEP? All IEP's have a "student will demonstrate...." So why don't you worry about fixing that problem first. The student is demonstrating that they don't have to do JACK, yet he will still have teachers fight for them to pass.

The only thing an IEP audit looks for isn't whether or not the IEP students are passing or failing, but rather, are you getting your paperwork done before the IEP expires. Are you doing the re-evaluations on time.


IEP's are a joke. If I don't agree with an accomodation, I simply 'translate' the IEP to what works for me.

"must provide pen and paper to student" I do, at the end of class to bring with him the next day.

"must allow re-tests" I do, but they have to come in at 7:25 and have all missing work completed
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:17 PM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Question Why do gen ed teachers refuse to comply

tapping you on the shoulder, excuse me, your the gen ed teacher

Historically ???? Well I don't know about historically but I do know I dont give answers. Yes I resent being accuse of something I don't do. I make my students work to gain the answer. Have you ever walked up behind a student taking a test or writing a paper and pointed out a mistake that is a simply mistake and nothing to do with the content? Something Like forgetting their name or not spelling something correctly, forgetting to answer a problem .... that is what I do and she calls it giving the answers.

I understand if a student doesn't do the work they fail, what I want to make sure of is when the state walks in, my records prove I am following the IEP, and that all the teachers are doing the same as far as accommodations and they can prove it with the documentation. I am not getting much help with the accommodations because reg. teachers don't want to take the extra time to make the accommodations or believe somehow the tests are lying that says this student is EMR or LD. Test aren't 100% but we have to start somewhere. I do have the IEP's, the teacher have access to them as needed and yes I believe that IEP's trumps anything the teacher thinks, if she/he wants changes she/he can call for a team meeting, and then we'll discuss it.

I do have students who are not motivated, who don't care if they pass or fail, who deserve to fail because they don't put out any effort, I just want to prove that with the documentation and I can't get the teacher to do either. I also have 3 students who do try, they work hard, it is the same elem teacher of these 3 students who thinks that all IEP students should receive low grades simply because they go to the sped room. I want to have a good working relationship with all the teacher, and we can agree to disagree but I am not going to tolerate another teacher brow beating any of my IEP students (or any student for that matter) and she does. Just her attitude with me proves she is discrimination against the special needs. A parent is threatening due process because of this teacher.

I am worrying about follow my goals that is what I am saying...., but my students can't demonstrate anything as long as a teacher won't give them the accommodations that are written in the IEP. Can you answer this, are the students not passing because the gen ed. teacher aren't making the accommodation or because they truly aren't doing the work. I can't prove anything, I have no documentation to say either way. So what needs to happen? You sound as though you've' been in the biz for a while, (and tainted by it). What do you do when your IEP students make poor grades? Blame the student of coarse. BUT ...For example an English teacher who refuses to give extra time on assignments (which is written in the IEP), she then flunks the IEP student because they didn't' get an assignment done. HELLO, what should happen first? YES give the extra time and then flunk the kid but instead I have teacher flunking the kid before the extra time, that is out of compliance with their IEP and a parent could sue the pants of the school. Students should be allowed to take retest even if they haven't got all their work done. You honestly could cause your school to be sued, probably why you tag on "not from New Orleans" to your name.

Maybe IEP are jokes? But you have to live with them, its the law. In your very blunt and bold opinion, WHY is it so hard to get the gen ed teacher to make accommodations, and why do so many feel giving "A's to a student with modified work is so wrong? How can you justify flunking a student ( I assume you do) when you haven't made the effort to meet the IEP accommodations? You complain about lazy kids, (and there are several) but what about lazy teachers?
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:47 AM
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well, you can never "Force" any teacher to do something they don't want, you don't have the authority, etc. Them not following the IEP (in your opinion, you still haven't proved it to me, though) is on them, not you.


I also love how you say "remind them that they spelled something wrong". On spelling tests, that could be construed as giving them the answer
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:12 PM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate_New_Orleans View Post
well, you can never "Force" any teacher to do something they don't want, you don't have the authority, etc. Them not following the IEP (in your opinion, you still haven't proved it to me, though) is on them, not you.


I also love how you say "remind them that they spelled something wrong". On spelling tests, that could be construed as giving them the answer

I did say content area, if a student is taking a history test, and they have misspelled a word then how is my pointing out their error giving an answer?

The authority is in the IEP itself, what kind of authority do I need except to enforce the IEP. If the IEP police walk (state) in and I don't have paper work in order, documentation to show progress on my students then it is MY problem and if I have teacher who do not follow the IEP then it is my job on the line. I happen to want to do a good job for my student, that is one reason I went into special ed. Something else that many classroom teachers don't thing about. The SpEd teacher also has to deal with angry parents, and school board as well if there is a problem with being out of compliance with the IDEA laws and state regulations, Special ed teacher have to comply to API's and keep in mind the GLE's for the gen ed teacher. Goals and objective, and then have some way of measuring them, not to mention a ton of paper work to show all this. So yes I do have the authority to make sure my student's IEP's are followed, much the same way you feel you have the authority to teach and enforce the subject you teacher when you grade a students paper. Don't other teachers come to you sometimes for suggestion in your field, do that make you some kind of authority?

I don't know what I can do to prove to you that my teachers aren't following the IEP except to say, the accommodations of giving extended time to complete homework assignments is not being followed excpet the midterm reports explain missing homework page # F o out of some many points. What kind of proof do you need anyway?

Here is a suggestion to all classroom teachers for allowing extended time, so your not always waiting on a student to do or not do an assingment:

Classroom teacher need to designate the extended time they will allow BEFORE the due date, not simply flunk the student because the work isn't finished or done. And another suggestion, Maybe classroom teacher need to give advance notice to the IEP students, a weekly assignment sheet or something which gives the IEP students a heads up BEFORE the due date. Does that make sense? The accommodations to extended time is met, the teacher isn't left holding out for a student, and the student can (or not) meet thier obligations. If the teacher wants to give the student and extra day, then say so before the due date, if he/she will not give the extra day its because he/she has given the time BEFORE the due date. Does that seem fair.

See compromise isn't all that hard, some teacher have lesson plans ahead enough to forwarn their students what is coming up in the next few days or weeks....so LET the IEP student know what, and DOCUMENT it with a copy of the assingments to the SPED room and parents.

musicllover
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 10:39 PM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Default got to thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate_New_Orleans View Post
well, you can never "Force" any teacher to do something they don't want, you don't have the authority, etc. Them not following the IEP (in your opinion, you still haven't proved it to me, though) is on them, not you.


I also love how you say "remind them that they spelled something wrong". On spelling tests, that could be construed as giving them the answer
I got to thinking:
You are right I cant "force" anyone to do anything. I guess I was wondering what happened to common work ethics, and work courtesy? Why should I have to force (or not force as you pointed out) the teacher to comply with the IEP accommodations? What is that the teacher disagree with and why.

You say the IEP is a joke, why? Tell me please because your opinion might give me some insight as to why my teacher act the way they do?

If the IEP process is a joke then go to the IEP meetings make sure you put your two cents worth in, then you have a right to complain. But until then just comply with the process.

Too many times I hear how so and so is just being lazy, and they believe he is more capable, my response to that is, maybe he is being lazy, but you still have to follow the IEP and the accommodations, so come to the IEP meeting, or the re-evaluations and we can discuss what is best for this student.
musicllover
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 10:42 PM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Talking got to thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate_New_Orleans View Post
well, you can never "Force" any teacher to do something they don't want, you don't have the authority, etc. Them not following the IEP (in your opinion, you still haven't proved it to me, though) is on them, not you.


I also love how you say "remind them that they spelled something wrong". On spelling tests, that could be construed as giving them the answer
I got to thinking:
You are right I can't "force" anyone to do anything. I guess I was wondering what happened to common work ethics, and work courtesy? Why should I have to force (or not force as you pointed out) the teacher to comply with the IEP accommodations? What is that the teacher disagrees with and why.

You say the IEP is a joke, why? Tell me please because your opinion might give me some insight as to why my teacher act the way they do?

If the IEP process is a joke then go to the IEP meetings make sure you put your two cents worth in, then you have a right to complain. But until then just comply with the process.

Too many times I hear how so and so is just being lazy, and they believe he is more capable, my response to that is, maybe he is being lazy, but since you didn't attend the meeting you still have to follow the IEP.
musicllover
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 10:55 PM
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Chocolate_New_Orleans Chocolate_New_Orleans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicllover View Post
I got to thinking:
You are right I can't "force" anyone to do anything. I guess I was wondering what happened to common work ethics, and work courtesy? Why should I have to force (or not force as you pointed out) the teacher to comply with the IEP accommodations? What is that the teacher disagrees with and why.

You say the IEP is a joke, why? Tell me please because your opinion might give me some insight as to why my teacher act the way they do?

If the IEP process is a joke then go to the IEP meetings make sure you put your two cents worth in, then you have a right to complain. But until then just comply with the process.

Too many times I hear how so and so is just being lazy, and they believe he is more capable, my response to that is, maybe he is being lazy, but since you didn't attend the meeting you still have to follow the IEP.
musicllover
I can tell you what the teacher disagrees with...

teachers can't stand being told that they aren't doing what they need for kids that are sitting on their butts doing nothing not doing what they need. And then you have SPED teachers that want to blame the regular ed teacher for the kid failing. Then, instead of holding a candle under the butt of the kid, they simply think the answer is in MORE rediculous accomodations.

SPED teachers also seem to think that all regular ed teachers are supposed to do is sign. In fact, I can't tell you how many times that I have sat in an IEP as the reg ed teacher for a kid I didn't have or know.

Now, they won't call me in to sign off as I have said something about rediculous accomodations. It's easier to bully the first year teacher into signing off.

Last edited by Chocolate_New_Orleans; 12-01-2007 at 10:59 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:21 AM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Default Ok now what

Ok, so you believe reg ed teacher don't like being told they aren't doing their jobs, I believe that is fair enough, and to some degree I believe you are right. Some SpEd teacher do blame the reg. ed teachers for a students failure. Reg Ed teacher blame the parents and the parents blame the school or the divorced parent... What advice can you give to on how to prevent this, I can't stop giving accommodations? So what do we do?

I'm curious too,
Why is it the special ed teacher job to hold the candle? shouldn't that be BOTH teachers job? I guess I really don't want to be the only one doing my job But if there were accommodations that you could live with would you help with the candle?

SpEd is not a magic cure, we don't wave a IEP around and poof a student changes into an Einstein, they are still the same students with the same issue so why is he/she all of a sudden the problem for the SpEd department? IDEA laws require the LEA for students, the reg ed teacher deals as much with that student if not more than the Sp Ed department does. I would think suggestions on how best to work with that student would make it easier not harder.

I guess for me, instead of being a part of the problem I want to be part of the solution. Some accommodations can work if all are willing to work together, and that means ALL teacher involved with that student. I'm flexable, work with me on this.

musicllover
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:25 AM
musicllover musicllover is offline
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Question Ok now what

Ok, so you believe reg ed teacher don't like being told they aren't doing their jobs, I believe that is fair enough, and to some degree I believe you are right. Some SpEd teacher do blame the reg. ed teachers for a students failure. Reg Ed teacher blame the parents and the parents blame the school or the divorced parent, its been that way since Adam and Eve..pasing the buck no one want to take the responsiblity... What advice can you give to on how to prevent this, I can't stop giving accommodations? So what do we do now?

I'm curious too,
Why is it the special ed teacher job to hold the candle? shouldn't that be BOTH teachers job? I guess I really don't want to be the only one doing my job But if there were accommodations that you could live with would you help with the candle (in some case maybe a blow torch would work better)?

SpEd is not a magic cure, we don't wave a IEP around and poof a student changes into an Einstein, they are still the same students with the same issue so why is he/she all of a sudden the problem for the SpEd department? IDEA laws require the least restrictive enviroment for students, the reg ed teacher deals as much with that student if not more than the Sp Ed department does. I would think suggestions on how best to work with that student would make it easier not harder.

I guess for me, instead of being a part of the problem I want to be part of the solution. Some accommodations can work if all are willing to work together, and that means ALL teacher involved with that student. I'm flexable, work with me on this. Give ideas and strategies instead of all that is wrong with the system, what can we do to make it better?

musicllover

Last edited by musicllover; 12-02-2007 at 01:27 AM.
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