Define Special Education

[mathman]

What exactly is special education anyway? I have visited/covered special education classes over the last six years and can see no learning taking place. The students classified as learning-disabled are really intelligent and vice-versa. To mix students with learning disabilities with those who have behavioral and anxiety-related problems is a huge mistake but I see it all the time in all the public schools. It is unbelievable! Students who're truly special education classified should be in special schools where individual needs can met professionally. I disagree with special education in the public schools. Students who have trouble learning should be with others who are on the same boat; the same applies to students who have anxiety and/or behavioral issues.

Your input?

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

well now, where do I begin.

Behavior issue kids usually end up being diagnosed learning disabilities because while their elementary classmates are learning, they are running around. When their classmates do homework, and learn to read, the behavior kid is staying out til midnight.

Behavior prevents learning, and when they are behind, they become more of a behavior problem

Unless a kid has a autism, mentally handicapped, or physically handicapped, there should be NO ACCOMODATIONS. (There, I bolded the part about the real handicapped kids so the inevitable hate posts don't use that). Kids who just want to cause problems should be weeded out of society so we continue to supply the world of tomorrow with the ditch diggers and manual labor jobs we need.

A classroom is like a herd of wild animals. It can only move as fast as it's slowest member. When a lion picks off that slowest member, the heard collectively, gets a little bit faster. Instead of slowing down the class so you can teach Johnny how to spell his name right on his paper in grade 8, get rid of Johnny from the mainstream class.

[St. Louis Blues]

Chocolate, I totally agree. Special Ed "mismanagement" is dragging us down, big time. The greatest disservice that we are giving our children is to let our government run our educational system.

[mathman]

Chocolate, I totally agree. Special Ed "mismanagement" is dragging us down, big time. The greatest disservice that we are giving our children is to let our government run our educational system.

How do we stop the government from running the educational system?

[mathman]

well now, where do I begin.

Behavior issue kids usually end up being diagnosed learning disabilities because while their elementary classmates are learning, they are running around. When their classmates do homework, and learn to read, the behavior kid is staying out til midnight.

Behavior prevents learning, and when they are behind, they become more of a behavior problem

Unless a kid has a autism, mentally handicapped, or physically handicapped, there should be NO ACCOMODATIONS. (There, I bolded the part about the real handicapped kids so the inevitable hate posts don't use that). Kids who just want to cause problems should be weeded out of society so we continue to supply the world of tomorrow with the ditch diggers and manual labor jobs we need.

A classroom is like a herd of wild animals. It can only move as fast as it's slowest member. When a lion picks off that slowest member, the heard collectively, gets a little bit faster. Instead of slowing down the class so you can teach Johnny how to spell his name right on his paper in grade 8, get rid of Johnny from the mainstream class.


I agree with the process of removing those who simply do not want to do their part. So many kids really hate school. If a student who hates school for whatever the reason is placed in a classroom where students really want to learn, then the rest are bound to be a total fiasco.

[Unregistered]

I agree just get rid of all those old bad kids that are messing up our perfect educational system. That way they can all continue to act the way they are acting together in one place. Then all the perfect children who never have any problems can remain in school with the teachers who can only handle the perfect children. Yes we need teachers or maybe anybody who can pick up the animals that stray from the herd . You know those childen who stay out until midnight and come to school just to start trouble. Unfortunately, I don't live in a society where when children leave school they only associate with children on the same academic level. I also don't pick my friends and or associates by their level of intelligence. I like people for who they are.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

wow, the sarcasm in that above post is thick. And once again, a user conveniently forgets what I bolded up top.

I'm not saying pull out every bad kid, I am saying hold them to the same accountability.

Unless a kid has a autism, mentally handicapped, or physically handicapped, they should be held to the same expectations

Everyone has free will, so use it. If behavior is slowing a kid down, then that kid's parents and the kid themself, needs to make his own personal accomodations, not expect the kid to coddle them and say "It's ok that you have failed all state testing, because your ADHD has prevented you from learning, go on to the next grade and we'll continue to work on that problem" :rolleyes:

Employers fire people who don't do what's expected, or if they can't meet deadlines, the school system accomodates for them and gives extensions and do-overs. THAT is what is wrong with schools today.

If a kid's behavior gets in the way of other's learning, you send them home until they can get it in check. After a while, parents will get tired of having JR at home and they'll do something to make sure that JR sits his ADHD butt down in class, no matter if he took his placebo meds or not that day. Currently, parents try to find fault in the teacher, and not hold their kid responsible.

[unregistered]

In reply to your post,

I have covered special education small group and collaborative classes. I do understand what you mean about mixing children together that have different disabilities, but I dont see it as a bad thing. Children need to be around other children that are not under that same category due to peer tutoring and by example. A child can learn more by a peer that is different than them, then a peer that is the same. Special education children can be embarrased because they are an outcast; which can cause behavioral issues. To answer your question, there are some schools that are geared to emotional behavioral disorder (EBD) children. Some kids are sent to these schools because their behavior may be a little extreme compared to what is expected at a regular school. I do think that the academic expectations can be too high for special education children, but then again, some of these children need to be pushed.

S. Stewart
9/26/07

[Bored of Ed]

I think that once you're mixing together different types of disabilities, you may as well just go fully to inclusion. When a kid needs specialized instruction for a specific reason, it's less likely to happen if they're just tossed into a class with everyone else who couldn't make the grade.

[Unregistered]

Unfortunately some children with learning disabilities are put into a class with children with behavioral problems. I have seen it personally. The child with the learning disability has to deal with class interruptions, some verbal abuse, inappropriate physical behavior. The child with the learning disability finally gets angry at being pushed and pushes back and is then reprimanded for pushing back. I understand that the child with the behavior problem can not always control his/her behavior but they should not be in the same class. It only hinders the child with learning disabilities from moving forward. If there is a an area of similiar learning, it could possibly be ok to put them in that subject together, but not all day. The teachers are usually powerless in setting the class makeup and are trying to make the best of the situation. I'm not sure how much individuality is taken into consideration by the teachers. I wish all children could have a teacher that notices that "neat trait" in each student and takes it into consideration.


On another note - does anyone know the difference between an education record and a permanent record?

[Unregistered]

What exactly is special education anyway? I have visited/covered special education classes over the last six years and can see no learning taking place. The students classified as learning-disabled are really intelligent and vice-versa. To mix students with learning disabilities with those who have behavioral and anxiety-related problems is a huge mistake but I see it all the time in all the public schools.

Your input?





I agree. Children with ED or ODD are routinely placed in classes with low-Q and Autistic children. This results in the ED/ODD children amusing themselves by finding new and inventive ways to bully the children who have real disabilities.

[Unregistered]

The cycle continues. A decade or so ago inclusion was the rage. It had its proponents and skeptics. In my opinion there was good and bad in the idea, just like so many others. Eventually we moved back to self contained classroom segregating, LD, EBD, Autism and so on. My school has recently decided to mix EBD, LD, and Autism. The results have been dismal. The few EBD students require so much attention that the LD students do not get the help they need. When the Autism students are with the EBD students they tease them until they retreat the the quiet room and then the EBD's laugh about it. It is discouraging as a 25+ year educator to watch LD students who I can help make up 2 to 4 grades (this is documented from past classes) actually regress through the teasing and intimidation. Two years ago my school tried to include the EBD kids in the regular classroom but the took them out for being too disruptive. If you want social interaction then mix then in homeroom and include them on the grade level teams. True once in high school they will have to learn to deal with each other. Experimenting in 8th grade has too many far reaching consequences.

As a parent of both EBD and LD students I agree with the placing students in the environment that they can learn and they do not interfere with anyone else's learning. Both of my LD students used medicine as appropriate and were able to succeed in the regular classroom. One will graduate with a psychology degree this semester and is planning on graduate school. The other is starting her junior year of college with a 2.96. On the other had I argued to have my EBD child removed from the regular classroom because he revelled in the chaos he caused and disrupted the learning of others. He, of his own choice, is living in a homeless shelter, working as a janitor to earn money to pay the restitution for his felony. Not bad for an almost 20 year-old. He got A's in any class he wanted to and failed the rest.

Since I am on a roll.....Why are so many parents against medicine. I am not talking about the hand out adderall like candy, I am talking about a child that performs above grade level with attention medicine, but 3 years below grade level without? My wife has a thyroid issue and takes medicine for it. We would consider it insane to tell her to concentrate to make her thyroid work. I wear glasses. If I refused to wear glasses because I was going to make my eyes work you would laugh. Then why, when someone has an imbalance in there brain chemicals we tell them that they just need to work harder. Meds should be used when they help a student reach their potential. I have worked with many parents and there physicians to help get the dosage high enough to do the work without stamping out their personality.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;36898]Since I am on a roll.....Why are so many parents against medicine. I am not talking about the hand out adderall like candy, I am talking about a child that performs above grade level with attention medicine, but 3 years below grade level without? QUOTE]














I think that it is natural to be cautious about the useage of powerful psychiatric drugs. If I were a parent I would want to know that the child actually has a disorder versus merely experiencing an age related "phase". I agree that meds are very helpful for kids with disorders, but at the same time its a little to easy to over-diagnose these disorders due to their subjective nature. In general, I see more parents medicating non-disabled kids than choosing to not medicate disabled kids. I suppose that this is partly because ADHD meds used to have much more serious side effects than they do now. Still, I've heard that many of these meds can cause high blood pressure.