Every student should have an IEP

[annettemcd]

I am writing this as a parent of two. Let me start with three points:
1) My children have gone to a small school with less then 250 students Preschool through 12.
2) My children are both high achievers.
3) I have been employed in the school and involved in education though I am not now a certified teacher.

I will use my son as an example. He was a good student, but not exceptional in much other than math. He had been tested in second grade as being two years above his peers in math and by third grade, he was bored silly and was working ahead in his workbook on the sly.

Luckily, I was insistent that he get an IEP. The only stipulation that I made was that he be able to work at the appropriate level in math. I do not want any special instruction for him, only the appropriate level. (At one time, I was told that the definition of gifted required that he get special instruction and without that he could not be considered gifted and could not be helped by the special education department.)

Luckily, I was able to work with his math teacher and the school began using Saxon Math and using a placement test in fifth grade to determine the appropriate level for all students. (This required math to be taught during the same period for most students in fifth grade up to include some high school students.) It worked, but only because I insisted. My son was able to be in regular Math classes with older students in 5th-11th grades and then do independent study at the college level in math in his senior year.

I recently insisted on an IEP for my daughter who is now a high school junior. She is hopefully going to graduate as valedictorian of her class, but her interests are such that she needs some special considerations. She needs some courses not available in the school such as 2-3 years of a foreign language, lots of art classes, and advanced science classes because she is interested in the specialized field of scientific illustration. The reason for the IEP was to arrange her schedule so that she could have 1/2 of her day in high school and be able to commute to a nearby university for classes in the afternoon.

My point is that every student should have an IEP because every student needs a plan and each student is an individual with different needs whether there are some disabilities, a particular learning style, or areas in which the student excels or lags behind. It can be as simple as noting that (again using my own children as examples) poor phonics, poor read-aloud skills, and poor spelling does not mean poor reading comprehension. (Both my children and myself are very poor at reading aloud and spelling, but read with high comprehension.) It could include a portfolio of the student's work, so that they could get help where they need it and not get too much repetition of the stuff that they have demonstrated that they understand already so that they can move on and learn more.

I expect that many are going to say that an IEP for every student is a luxury that we can not afford, especially in crowded schools, but it is something to consider and, hopefully, a goal to reach for. Perhaps, as in my case, it is an issue that parents should be advocating for their own children and not leaving all of the responsibility in the hands of the school system.

Just my opinion...

[Mr. H]

Whereas I see your point and it would be great in some fantasy world, but I prefer to remain practical. IEPs should be for students with mild to serious impairments. As it is now, all that is required now is for a parent to start whining about their kids performance in school and POOF an IEP is drafted.
I am for IEPs being reserved for students who wouldn't be able to get an average/passing grade without it, not for the kid who gets Cs because he can't master him/herself enough to pay attention and put forth effort (which seems to be the case with more and more of the students whit IEPs). Let's save resources for students who actually NEED THEM! Novel idea, don't you think?
As educators, we are responsible for presenting information in understandable formats so that all of our students have the opportunity to learn. We shouldn't have to resort to IEPs for each student if we are doing our job correctly. At the same time, if students aren't achieving their potential as learners, then maybe they need more support at home or maybe they can seek tutoring on their own instead of burdening the already-stretched educational system.

[annettemcd]

quote:
"I am for IEPs being reserved for students who wouldn't be able to get an average/passing grade without it..."

I am saying that IEPs are not just for the students who are doing poorly or need extra help from special educators or additional help in the classroom or to be pulled out of the classroom. As I said with my son, there was no extra work, the only stipulation in his IEP was that he work at the appropriate level in one subject, math, be it on his own or with older students. With my daughter, her IEP has only to do with scheduling her high school classes and acknowledging that she should be enrolled in college courses during her senior year in high school. --No extra work by teachers, no Special Education, just an acknowledgment of an individual.

Maybe the problem is that an IEP has a particular meaning in education which involves Special Education, additional teaching effort and time, and additional resources. Maybe what I should say is that every student should have an ongoing written evaluation of their individualized educational goals with consideration of their weaknesses and strengths and with their teachers having access to it.

As a parent, I want this information in writing in my children's records. I want the teaching staff to have access to this information, but I am not requiring any additional work by the teachers on a day to day basis. I am only asking for discussion of my children's educational goals once or twice per year and I do not want this information lost because it was just a parent/teacher meeting with a single teacher. Why should I have to repeat this information orally each time with each teacher and every year? Why can't it be written down?

An example of a behavior problem. My son thought that everything his best friend said was hysterically funny and his friend talked a lot. Every year in school from preschool through high school, I was told that this was a problem in the classroom and that if the two boys sat together, they were sometimes disruptive. My point was that why should each teacher need to learn this on their own, complain to the parents, and then rearrange the seating chart? A note in the students' records and then at the beginning of each year the boys could have been assigned seats apart from each other. This would have solved the problem instead of me needing to hear about it year after year. (Yes, I was told the same thing when they were Seniors that I was told when they were in Kindergarten.) These boys were in the top of their class (the "best friend" graduated valedictorian) and they were not troublemakers, they just should not have even been allowed to sit next to each other in class --a simple solution to the problem.

One of my points (and one of my big problems with "No Child Left Behind") is that we spend a great deal of time and effort on making sure that the students who are struggling or are below average because of learning disabilities, laziness, or excessive absenteeism get help, but we totally ignore the high achievers who are the potential of being leaders and "movers and shakers" or drive them out of public schools and into private schools. (BTW I heard a teacher once say that she felt that if the records of the students who were two years behind their peers were examined that it could be shown that by fifth or sixth grade many of these students had missed an accumulation of days about equal to 360 days or two school years -- a day here, a week there, a number of late arrivals, and some extra personal holidays all add up.)

My children who are smart and work hard in school sat in classes, even in twelfth grade, where the textbook was read aloud because there are high school students who could not or would not read the text on their own and the school could "leave no child behind." So there is a national policy that results in my children spending their time in school twiddling their thumbs. Other nations do not do this and maybe this is one of the reasons that this country's education system is in trouble. :mad:

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

quote:
"I am for IEPs being reserved for students who wouldn't be able to get an average/passing grade without it..."

I am saying that IEPs are not just for the students who are doing poorly or need extra help from special educators or additional help in the classroom or to be pulled out of the classroom. As I said with my son, there was no extra work, the only stipulation in his IEP was that he work at the appropriate level in one subject, math, be it on his own or with older students. With my daughter, her IEP has only to do with scheduling her high school classes and acknowledging that she should be enrolled in college courses during her senior year in high school. --No extra work by teachers, no Special Education, just an acknowledgment of an individual.

Maybe the problem is that an IEP has a particular meaning in education which involves Special Education, additional teaching effort and time, and additional resources. Maybe what I should say is that every student should have an ongoing written evaluation of their individualized educational goals with consideration of their weaknesses and strengths and with their teachers having access to it.

As a parent, I want this information in writing in my children's records. I want the teaching staff to have access to this information, but I am not requiring any additional work by the teachers on a day to day basis. I am only asking for discussion of my children's educational goals once or twice per year and I do not want this information lost because it was just a parent/teacher meeting with a single teacher. Why should I have to repeat this information orally each time with each teacher and every year? Why can't it be written down?

An example of a behavior problem. My son thought that everything his best friend said was hysterically funny and his friend talked a lot. Every year in school from preschool through high school, I was told that this was a problem in the classroom and that if the two boys sat together, they were sometimes disruptive. My point was that why should each teacher need to learn this on their own, complain to the parents, and then rearrange the seating chart? A note in the students' records and then at the beginning of each year the boys could have been assigned seats apart from each other. This would have solved the problem instead of me needing to hear about it year after year. (Yes, I was told the same thing when they were Seniors that I was told when they were in Kindergarten.) These boys were in the top of their class (the "best friend" graduated valedictorian) and they were not troublemakers, they just should not have even been allowed to sit next to each other in class --a simple solution to the problem.

One of my points (and one of my big problems with "No Child Left Behind") is that we spend a great deal of time and effort on making sure that the students who are struggling or are below average because of learning disabilities, laziness, or excessive absenteeism get help, but we totally ignore the high achievers who are the potential of being leaders and "movers and shakers" or drive them out of public schools and into private schools. (BTW I heard a teacher once say that she felt that if the records of the students who were two years behind their peers were examined that it could be shown that by fifth or sixth grade many of these students had missed an accumulation of days about equal to 360 days or two school years -- a day here, a week there, a number of late arrivals, and some extra personal holidays all add up.)

My children who are smart and work hard in school sat in classes, even in twelfth grade, where the textbook was read aloud because there are high school students who could not or would not read the text on their own and the school could "leave no child behind." So there is a national policy that results in my children spending their time in school twiddling their thumbs. Other nations do not do this and maybe this is one of the reasons that this country's education system is in trouble. :mad:

education today is geared around the lowest and the highest students. I agree with you on many parts, but it is the average who fall through the cracks, not the brightest.

think about this scenario, though, for a minute. Suppose you give every kid an IEP like you suggest, even the advanced kids. And in your kid's advanced class, another kid's IEP reads "must provide time to read aloud with class" Now, every kid in class has to read aloud because of that 1 kid with it on their IEP.

[GoldenMesa]

Whereas I see your point and it would be great in some fantasy world, but I prefer to remain practical. IEPs should be for students with mild to serious impairments. As it is now, all that is required now is for a parent to start whining about their kids performance in school and POOF an IEP is drafted.
I am for IEPs being reserved for students who wouldn't be able to get an average/passing grade without it, not for the kid who gets Cs because he can't master him/herself enough to pay attention and put forth effort (which seems to be the case with more and more of the students whit IEPs). Let's save resources for students who actually NEED THEM! Novel idea, don't you think?
As educators, we are responsible for presenting information in understandable formats so that all of our students have the opportunity to learn. We shouldn't have to resort to IEPs for each student if we are doing our job correctly. At the same time, if students aren't achieving their potential as learners, then maybe they need more support at home or maybe they can seek tutoring on their own instead of burdening the already-stretched educational system.

I have long said the same thing -- that it would be great if ALL children's individuality was represented in the form of an IEP. And sometimes being very bright or very different CAN be an impairment to learning. Sometimes simply not having a child's areas of passion or individuality ever stirred can be an impairment. I don't debate that the educational system is stretched but that, to me, cannot make it OK to imply that the parents (or the students) are not pulling their weight to provide support and effort from their end, nor that the ability to get a passing grade (especially if you can do so without even trying or caring) means that the educational system has done right by the student.

I can say from experience In our family's experience, educators do not always present information in an understandable format. Indeed, for our children we were lucky to have them receive new information at school at ALL and our students, while certainly achieving passing grades (and being used to teach other children and to act as peacemakers and student assistants in the classroom -- the BURDEN being placed on them, academically and socially). When our family paid for GT testing and academic testing to further document that "something isn't right with this picture" the data that we brought to the table was ignored.

As for us, with three children (one twice exceptional --dyslexic and unable to read until he was about nine) one by one (and with a complete collection of tales of idiocy like "your child cannot take math with the children two grades up next year, even those she wants to and did so successfully at the end of this year, because it conflicts with her recess and we can't have that" or "no, he can't do multiplication now because what would he do next year?") we ended up truly "supporting" our children's education with very Individual Education Plans: homeschooling. This was NEVER what I planned to do with my 30's and NOt in the family budget. But many gifted children who are NOT ALLOWED to reach their potential become depressed (as well as wasteful of their potential) so (having tried our share of "whining" with the local school district, but to no avail, you may be pleased to know) the public school system was freed of our troublesome family (and no doubt at great tax-payer advantage as we had to deal with everything out-of-pocket). However, on the upside, when he was 15 my oldest son had gotten an associated degree at the local community college and at 17 he is an upperclassman at a prestigious engineering college (no high school diploma). Our daughter will likely start at a liberal arts college at 16 (at 14 she already has college and AP credit). My dyslexic 13 year old just finished Algebra II. They are involved in performing/creative arts and community service. Unlike other gifted or highly creative kids we know, our kids haven't turned to drugs as an outlet for their frustration. People comment how pleasant our children are and how well our family gets along. We. their parents, are very tired and have no nest egg whatsoever. But fortunately, for society, my husband and I are educated and responsible adults and so OUR children will get an education (even if we will NEVER be able to retire) -- what about families who have children who don't fit the mold but can't make homeschooling an option and also have no IEPs (not that I think IEPs are the be-all-and-end-all but they are something) and end up with kids who are depressed or drop-outs?

So let's not wait for things to get to some level of desperation and failure for deservedness to occur. "Need" can look like a lot of different things. In my opinion, IEPs and education should be about making sure EVERYBODY gets to grow and is inspired to see how they might contribute to the world, not about just making "good enough" grades so you get by and don't stand out as an individual. I've shown up to education meetings and advocated as much. I'm only a homeschooling fan to the degree that I'e been FORCED into it, to the degree that no one would see my children as individuals. Yes -- IEPs all around!!! Practical? Maybe not. But a world promoting uninspired cookie-cutter semi-adequacy isn't anything worth preserving. I'd rather promote Dreams and so far I've done my best to walk that talk where my family is involved. But I don't just believe it for my kids -- I believe it for ALL kids.

-goldenmesa

[Unregistered]

If every child truly got an individualized education, there would be no need for special education, gifted classes, IEP's, 504's, etc., but we know that will never happen.

[Unregistered]

This is what RTI is for.........IEP's are for students who are diagnosed with a disability. A reason other than their own for why they are not achieving at the students true ability level. RTI are interventions based in the classroom to help kids who an IEP is not appropriate for.

[Unregistered]

This is what RTI is for.........IEP's are for students who are diagnosed with a disability. A reason other than their own for why they are not achieving at the students true ability level. RTI are interventions based in the classroom to help kids who an IEP is not appropriate for.

RTI is to evaluate to see if a child has a learning disability. Below you will find a definition of RTI as found on the ed.gov website:

LD Diagnosis
In diagnosing LD, the discrepancy criterion is no longer necessary. The act states:
...a local educational agency shall not be required to take into consideration
whether a child has a severe discrepancy between achievement and intellectual
ability in oral expression, listening comprehension, written expression, basic
reading skill, reading comprehension, mathematical calculation, or mathematical
reasoning. (614,b,6,A)
However, a local educational agency (LEA) may use a process that determines if the
child responds to scientific, research-based intervention as a part of the evaluation
procedures described in paragraphs 614, b, 2, & 3.This is referred to as the response to intervention or RTI

[Unregistered]

This is what RTI is for.........IEP's are for students who are diagnosed with a disability. A reason other than their own for why they are not achieving at the students true ability level. RTI are interventions based in the classroom to help kids who an IEP is not appropriate for.

IEP's are not just for students diagnosed with a disability. Some states use IEP's for their gifted students also.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

Gifted education is still technically special education by definition. Most people simply associate SPED with the low end, and forget about the top end. This is why I feel the need to be the middle kid's spokeperson. Lowend gets extra attention for their negative behavior, top end gets extra attention for their positive behavior. Who focuses on the middle of the row kids who simply do as expected with no extra attention. What if one realizes that they get stuff done for them when they become a class disruption? Where is the incentive to maintain when all they see is the low and high end getting all the extra attention? And since it's easier to do nothing than to become 'gifted', guess which one is more likely to happen if a middle kid desires attention

[Unregistered]

Gifted education is still technically special education by definition. Most people simply associate SPED with the low end, and forget about the top end. This is why I feel the need to be the middle kid's spokeperson. Lowend gets extra attention for their negative behavior, top end gets extra attention for their positive behavior. Who focuses on the middle of the row kids who simply do as expected with no extra attention. What if one realizes that they get stuff done for them when they become a class disruption? Where is the incentive to maintain when all they see is the low and high end getting all the extra attention? And since it's easier to do nothing than to become 'gifted', guess which one is more likely to happen if a middle kid desires attention

I totally agree!

[YEAHRIGHT]

I personally think the only students who truly need IEPs are the ones in the severe/profound population. They have needs that absolutely require modifications such as using communication devices or being able to be out of their wheelchair for a certain amount of time in addition to speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, etc.

Soon enough, parents will complain. When they see where their tax dollars are going and when they see their child does not receive as much attention as the brightest or lowest students. Pitiful

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

butbut but, why should the little add/adhd kids get as much accoms as the profoundly severly disabled :rolleyes:

Public education is going to fail, all because everybody thinks their child should be enabled to act like a turd

[Unregistered]

Public education is going to fail, all because everybody thinks their child should be enabled to act like a turd

Public education is going to fail, all because everybody thinks that if they stayed at holiday inn last nite, they are a teacher

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

rrraarrrr!!!11

so no argument to debate my claim, just rage? :D

[Unregistered]

IEP's are only needed for everyone if you assume that all students need to learn different material. Thanks to NCLB this cannot be true. All students (exept SPED) must know the info on the tests, therefore we can make a valid assumption that all students need to participate in the same lessons.

If you feel your child is not being challenged then look into voluntary extra-achievement programs such as UIL.