They just keep cramming them in...

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

The ESE teacher complained to me the other day at lunch...

"man, I'll trade anyone my classload with what they have, no one could handle it"

Then we compared, his 1st period ESE math class, his turd class behavior wise, has 12 in there. EVERYONE of those 12 are in my 6th period social studies class. But add to it another 20, 10 from his 2nd period class, and 10 regular ed classes. What the heck, an ESE teacher isn't supposed to havemore than ?15? in a class, but a regular ed can have 20 mixed with 10 regular ed kids?

Either way, I got a new ESE girl in 6th period yesterday. (for a total of 33 in that class). She is a small little 7th grader, and VERY LOW as far as reading as far as I can tell based on what her schedule is.

Anyways, her first day was our 'outloud reading' day. Kids take turns reading 1 paragraph at a time. Well, her turn came up and she didn't know where we were, fine, we got her to the correct spot, she then started to read, then stopped, and then said "I'm not reading, you can't make me" I chewed her butt for a minute, and decided to contact a parent later, and then skipped her. Low level or not, you particapate in the reading.

Well, this morning, 1st period (of course when I had a classful of students), I get a phone call from the ESE teacher. She asked if I had the new girl, I said yes, she then asked if I knew her background. I said, no, not yet, I just got her yesterday. She told me that this girl has been raped multiple times and in and out of foster homes for the past 5 years. I responded, "no, I didn't realize that, I'll keep that in mind" She then continued on and said, "well, now that you know, quit yelling at her". I said, "excuse me" She repeated it. She told me that she wasn't going to "allow" me to yell at this poor girl anymore.

Well, I told her, I'm sorry it happened, but that doesn't entitle her to come in and tell me what she is going to do and not do in class.

She then repeated that she will not allow me to yell at her

I told her, there are VERY FEW people that can TELL me what I can and can't do in my classroom, that little girl isn't one of them, neither is that teacher that called me.

She then told me that we're going to then have a meeting with the principal about it then.

I don't know what pisses me off more, the fact that a turd kid tried to take over my class with her behaviors, or the fact that another teacher called and tried to talk to me like she was my boss. This teacher has gone off the deep end (unprofessionally) before with other faculty members.

She gets very personal and very unprofessional about things. Now, feeling that she is on the moral highground, I'm sure this is going to be a super fun time when I meet with the principal over the issue.

but now, back to the girl. We read again on Monday, if she doesn't, she's getting a writeup for class disruption. I demand an attempt. ESE or not, no matter what emotional luggage she has, there is nothing on an IEP that says, "does not have to show effort". If there is, she doesn't need to be in a regular ed class. We shall see.

[jmom]

I am just curious. With the amount of ESE children in your classrooms do you get any TA support from the special education department or are you on your own with all these children?

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

I am just curious. With the amount of ESE children in your classrooms do you get any TA support from the special education department or are you on your own with all these children?

Don't even get me started on team teaching or para professionals.

I have a paraprofessional in that class, and a team teacher in my other class that is similiar. I will say, the para I have in 6th period is GREAT!!!! The actual ESE teacher I have in 3rd, not so great.

My para, however, isn't qualified to deal with the stuff. She grades papers, she helps if students need it, but as far as curriculum, class discipline, everything else, it's all me. I wouldn't trade her for the world as she does a great job based on her work ethic. However, her work ethic isn't the norm, and normally, even if someone else is in there with me, I am all alone and have no help.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

well, the meeting with the teacher and admin never happened. But when I came back from wrestling regionals this past monday, she wasn't enrolled in my class anymore for whatever reason.

The last 'funny' thing that happened was yesterday, at a staff meeting, the other teacher was in there, and the district speaker was going on and on about how kids should read in class, no matter what subject, to build up their "endurance" that they lack in standardized testing, I spoke up. I told her I agree, but what do you do when another teacher yells at you for trying to make them read in class. The lady looked perplexed, and said that I SHOULD make them read. The look on the other teacher's face was priceless. If looks could kill....

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

oh yeah, and the principal did make a 'drive by' as we call them. Just an observational pop-in, in my 6th period (the class that was in question) The first thing she stated

"wow, there ARE a lot of kids in this class, why didn't you mention this earlier?"

"Because I don't whine, just let me do what I have to do, though."

[Unregistered]

You do not belong in the teaching profession. I understand your frustrations but if you are burnt out you should retire. Your lack of empathy is appalling! Of what value is it to this child and the rest of the class to embarass a child that CANT read the passage. There is NO excuse for ABUSE! I hope your coworker climbs to the top until someone listens to her observations regarding your behaviour. When you alienate 1 child there are 30 more watching you. They can learn not to trust you,learn to bully and abuse their peers by following your example or live in fear that one day they will be the focus of your rath! Spend more time learning EFFECTIVE stratagies to reach ALL kids and less time complaining about your life. You have made up your mind to hate these kids.Knowing that people like you exsist in the school system keeps me focussed on advocating for these kids. Thank God I believe in karma.

[Unregistered]

Unfortunately, people like CNO are all too prevalent in our educational system.....bitter, burnt out. I have been coaching/teaching for thirteen years, and have never worked with a colleague so brash, uncaring and ignorant as he is. Sorry this may not be a very professional post, but it this dude makes me livid.....I will not waste my time sharing with him my take on coaches/teachers. He is a nut case.
Coach M from MN

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

does 'advocate' also mean 'crutch maker' ? That's what it sounds like to me.

I'm not grading if they misread a word, but I do expect they try. ESE kids can have expectations as well.

all your way says to kids is "if it's too hard, don't try" and yes, when 1 does that, there are 30 others who learn from that and the next time they don't feel like reading, guess which excuse they use.

If a kid can't handle mainstream stuff, even with modifications, then they need to be in another class. I refuse to slow down a class of 32 for 1. You may see it as hurting the 1, I see your way as hurting the other 32. I have numbers on my side to justify my actions.

And thank God I think Kharma is a bunch of rubbish used by the weak-willed who use it as a crutch in life.

[Unregistered]

My god! This guy is the exact reason I became a teacher. Let me share a story if you will:

I grew up in a severely abusive, alcoholic family. Big deal. Many people do, and many people get past it and live life such as I have. Education was a joke to my father (the only parent I lived with). He "encouraged" me to get a job when I was in 7th grade in order to pay for his beer and cigs. I did. He "encouraged" me to quit school in 9th grade so I could pay rent to him for living in his house. I didn't. Point is this, there are so many things going on in the lives of students, where does this “TURD” of a teacher (I use that term loosely) get off thinking that his reading aloud is what these kids are seriously thinking about? What makes him think they actually give a rat’s ************? Moving on...

I struggled through school from start to finish. I failed everything but art and gym while in high school. I graduated, if you want to call it that, with a 1.5 GPA, while missing 101 days of my senior year (Yea, I know, I know, but they still gave me a diploma). Reading was impossible, math was worse. I just couldn't do it no matter how hard I tried. I went into the army and became a great soldier, an MP in fact. After about a year and a half in the Army I was taking a vision test when it was discovered that I had dyslexia. After getting my ************ chewed for not disclosing a learning disability, of which I had no knowledge, I was put into therapy to correct a severe case of dyslexia. A normal case of dyslexia is when a person exhibits 10-12 of the 37 most common symptoms...I had 27 of the 37, so that's what I mean by severe. After relearning everything I already learned, I became a sponge and wanted to know everything because things were so much easier now that I knew what I was doing. After the army, I continued my law enforcement career for another 3 years and then dropped it all and became an education major at a major university. I make deans list every semester while juggling a full family of 4 kids and a 1 hour commute each way to and from school, I carry a 3.8 GPA and am graduating in May.

My point: I was stupid in high school according to jerks like this person, but with a little attention being paid to a real problem, look where I'm at now. This jackass teacher from New Orleans is the exact teacher I had times 15. No one gave a holy hell about the one kid who couldn't get it. Instead of differentiating their teaching strategy, they just kept on in their rut, plowing away the only way they knew how. Instead of latching onto what is being proven to work NOWADAYS, guys like this are still clinging to the old, parochial crap that just doesn’t work. You, my friend, are a dinosaur and you should get out of my profession NOW before you ruin more precious minds. In case you do not go now, I suggest you sit in on an IEP meeting or two, maybe take the time to read up on I.D.E.A. (not that I’d expect you to have a clue what that means). Go away. You bother me.

[kchap]

To the above poster:
I applaud you! Unfortunately you are a rarity. I shudder to think of all of the students under CNO's charge that have been beaten down emotionally by him, over and over, who had/have not the tenacity that you possess to climb out of the abyss. Because of your experience, I can bet my life that you are an excellent teacher who inspires many with your guidance and understanding of what they are dealing with. CNO's posts are sprinkled with references to these types of students as "turds" and "arseholes". I read his posts with great sympathy for any student who has the misfortune to wind up in his classroom. One cannot help but pity this poor ego-inflated man who uses "our educational system and it's BS" as an excuse to foist his psuedo-authoritarian style of teaching upon his students.
God bless you!

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

both of you are part of the "progressive BS" that fills our educational system. L.D.'s are natures way of determining who our burger flippers are going to be

unregistered - I am certified in ESE education and have sat through an IEP or two :rolleyes: I am aware of IDEA. it's all garbage though.

you say to 'differentiate' the instruction, but reality says that means 'slow down the other 32 so the 1 can keep up". That's doing an injustice to the other 32

you couldn't figure out 1a +2a = 3a

you expect the other 32 be held up until you get it. That sounds all noble on paper, but when the state testing has 1a+2a+3a= _____ . The 32 others in your class, along with you, now can't answer that question on state testing because the teacher was 'forced' to slow down the class for you.

If you can't handle it in a mainstream class, you need to be removed and put in a class you can handle.

and btw - MP's is exactly the job I'd expected you to have in the Army. When they aren't smart enough, reliable enough, educated enough to do anything that is important, then they give them a gun, and put them at the entrance of the base.

[Unregistered]

Not that I must justify myself to such an ignorant...AHEM...person, but I had a 135 GT score, which means I was within the top 10 percent of all branches of the military as far as test scores go, which also meant that I could select any job I wanted (minus linguist, for obvious reasons). Fortunately, the military takes into account the lack of quality progressive education and includes many tactical, as well as technical questions on their ASVAB test.

As far as MP's being stupid...I don't think I need to justify that comment considering you already tagged yourself as knowing nothing about the military. If you did, you would know that few military bases put MP's on gate duty. That usually is reserved for broken down DOD civilians. My MP duty consisted of actual police patrol and duties, not to mention DEPLOYMENTS and field duties. Go read a book before you start jabbering.

I'm not one to take insults from internet tough guys seriously, actually I usually laugh at them, but since you mentioned it, if I'm such a stupid person, how might you explain away a 3.8 GPA at one of the top 5 Educational programs in the country? Also, how would someone so "stupid" make the National Deans list three years running? Just words I guess, so don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me that someone of such obvious lack of civility thinks I'm "stupid," but I just thought I'd throw those little tid-bits of info out there for you to chew on.

Next on the agenda would be your lack of common sense as far as teaching goes. Any half-wit teacher knows that there are hundreds of ways to teach the same material. If one way doesn't work, try another way, and if that don't work, try something else. Unfortunately, people like you only know one way to do things and if that way doesn't work then you are out of luck and blame your failure on students.

"Both of you are part of the 'progressive BS' that fills our educational system." A translation of that means this: "man, I don't know what he's talking about and that makes me feel as stupid as some of these "turds" in my class. I'll just verbally attack them and try to flex my internet muscles so they think I know what they mean." When someone uses the word "progressive" in that way, that tells me that they have no idea what the big deal is and they are intimidated by actual progress. That "progressive BS" is backed up by some strong data and studies. You should invest in an educational journal or two, you might be impressed with some of the studies people are doing nowadays.

I bet you still think that racial desegregation and women's suffrage (I'll give you a minute to look that one up) are "progressive BS" too. But then again, when you live and die by teaching methods that are from the 1920's, chances are the rest of your life follows the same thought pattern.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to turn this message board into an internet version of verbal studio wrestling, but when you make such Neanderthal educational statements it’s hard to keep from using you as a piñata. Moreover, as far as the “you two” to whom you are referring, you may want to go back and read a few of the posts. There are more than just two of us who think you have outlived your usefulness.

I can't figure out if you are just here trying to elicit responses and stir things up, or if you actually believe the things you say. Either way, it's sad. You are sad. People like you, who refuse to change even if you know you should, are sad. Have a nice life buddy.

P.S.
For future reference, my name is Gerald. Feel free to use it liberally.

[kchap]

VERY well put, Gerald!;)

[Unregistered]

I'm not usually one to post on message boards, in fact, I usually come in here from time to time to see if I can learn a few new tricks to use in my classroom, however, after reading this thread, I just MUST comment.
I think Gerald said it better than any of us could have. It is thoroughly disgusting to think that there are still cavemen like this Chocolate whatever his name is teaching our kids.
I'm betting he's probably one of those stereotypical gym teacher guys who looks like a used car salesman. He probably wears polyester shwooshy pants and a butterfly collar button-up with his "Manly" chest hair and gold medallion chains bursting about. Between Fonzi grunts (ugh...heeeeyyyyyy!) he pins the students to the wall and says stuff like "look at these bicepts...have you ever seen such a specimine of a man in your life...?"

Sorry, got caught up in my own image of this creep. I won't stoop to his level and throw around insults. Anyway...I have two cousins who were MP's, and I knew all their friends well. The whole gang was like my foster family when I was growing up. I can just say from my experience, I have only ever met one moronic MP and all the other's were borderline geniouses. This man has no clue and I'm guessing has never served his country, therefore he has no business bashing those who have.
You (Gerald) are a positive force in the teaching profession. I am a 23 year classroom veteran and I welcome you into our profession. No doubt you will make it a better place to be. We should just bide our time until all the trash has washed out to sea, so the new wave of teaching can take over. The old stuff is old for a reason. To Chocolate thunder, or whomever you are: Grow up and do some research, caveman! You are the past, thank god!

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

so then register already, Gerald...

that way, kchap knows exactly which sack to ride on with no confusion.


Think of it like this. This poor girl in my original post, couldn't cut it in a mainstream class. That's not dismissing her as a person or student, but if she needs to be in a better class, then damnit, move her to that class, don't overload her into my, already too big class. ESE teachers complain when they get more than 15 because they can't deal with them in that individual type basis like they need, yet, my 6th period had 15 ESE in there plus, another 18 regular students, yet I can't complain? BS.

And think of this, had I not held her to expectations, then she wouldn't have been moved into the better classroom situation. Some kids don't need to be in the regular ed classroom and allowing them to be in it not only hurts the one, but it also hurts the other 32 in my case, and I will push to get that one removed so that 1 can be serviced better.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

I'm not usually one to post on message boards, in fact, I usually come in here from time to time to see if I can learn a few new tricks to use in my classroom, however, after reading this thread, I just MUST comment.
I think Gerald said it better than any of us could have. It is thoroughly disgusting to think that there are still cavemen like this Chocolate whatever his name is teaching our kids.
I'm betting he's probably one of those stereotypical gym teacher guys who looks like a used car salesman. He probably wears polyester shwooshy pants and a butterfly collar button-up with his "Manly" chest hair and gold medallion chains bursting about. Between Fonzi grunts (ugh...heeeeyyyyyy!) he pins the students to the wall and says stuff like "look at these bicepts...have you ever seen such a specimine of a man in your life...?"

Sorry, got caught up in my own image of this creep. I won't stoop to his level and throw around insults. Anyway...I have two cousins who were MP's, and I knew all their friends well. The whole gang was like my foster family when I was growing up. I can just say from my experience, I have only ever met one moronic MP and all the other's were borderline geniouses. This man has no clue and I'm guessing has never served his country, therefore he has no business bashing those who have.
You (Gerald) are a positive force in the teaching profession. I am a 23 year classroom veteran and I welcome you into our profession. No doubt you will make it a better place to be. We should just bide our time until all the trash has washed out to sea, so the new wave of teaching can take over. The old stuff is old for a reason. To Chocolate thunder, or whomever you are: Grow up and do some research, caveman! You are the past, thank god!

yet you post that 2 sentances after you throw insults around.

I rest assurred that their are a ton of new teachers, every year, that think just like me, who come in to make sure the entire education system doesn't fail.

23 years of book experience isn't real world experience.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

I said it in another thread, but will add it here too.

I have no actual problem accomodating for any ESE classification, and they can put any kid they want in my class. However, L.A.Z.Y. is not a label I deal with.

If the kid chooses to let their behavior interfere with grades, they get an F (or whatever they deserve). The only true way to fail my class is be lazy.

We do projects (track hurricanes), we do 2 question homeworks (that aren't checked for accuracy,but rather, if they did it and turned it in on time, a resposibility check I call it) and we do bell ringers at the beginning and end of class. 1 question, that they have to answer (and I put the page in the chapter they need to look at to find the answer) and chapter tests once every 2 weeks.

You know why kids, both ESE and regular, fail my class? It's not because the tests aren't ESE friendly, or I refuse to help someone with comprehension, it's because they are LAZY. How does an ESE classification affect a kid's ability to turn in a hurricane project (that we did entirely in class) for 2 test grades? It doesn't, but LAZY does. In 7th grade, kids would rather use bellringer time to talk and not settle down. That's not an ESE behavior, that's a growing up issue that all 7th graders have

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

this was from 2 years ago. I don't have this same issue this year, but social studies constantly gets all the SPED kids at higher numbers than the SPED teachers get.

[Unregistered]

this was from 2 years ago. I don't have this same issue this year, but social studies constantly gets all the SPED kids at higher numbers than the SPED teachers get.










Not just social studies. As an elementary teacher I have had 12 sped plus four who were in the process of entering sped. The sped teach only had 6 of those students in resource. (resouce does not take ed, odd, autistic, dyslexic, disgraphic, discalculic, or any low-Q child who has managed to stay above the two years below grade level standard)

[Unregistered]

"because i don't whine, just let me do what i have to do, though."

what???????????????????????????

[Unregistered]

Could someone please explain exactly why CNO is being attacked? Do you disagree that sped students should be held accountable for lack of effort?

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

because I don't sugar-coat anything.

The problem with education, on both the parental side, and teacher side, is everyone want sunshine and daisies. They want easy answers, quick fixes, and they always want to be able to deflect the blame away from where it needs to be.

when I see 99% of the IEP kids not need one, and they only get one because somebody else didn't just say "sit down and shut up" to a little brat, I get upset.

Very few kids, strive for above the bare minimum in the classroom. But instead of holding them accountable for talking instead of studying, and then failing the test, I have an IEP put on my desk, that I had no input in creating, that says I am to give and easier test, or one with 3 multiple choices instead of 4, or let them retake it an infinite number of times or that I can't grade daily work, or expect them to read aloud in class because they struggle too much.

Heaven forbid I correct them and hurt their fragile little egos.

Meanwhile, it's the middle of the road performing kid that suffers. The advanced kid knows what to do, how to do it, but the middle kid is forgotten about because teacher is too busy babysitting and coddling a kid whose only disability is being diagnosed L.A.Z.Y.