I am amazed at the stupidity of some teachers

[RemTheWanderer]

Let me start by apologizing for the harsh title of this thread. My main goal was to attract people to read my story. I admire anyone who wants to teach and can do it well. My frustration lies in something a little bit more complicated. Allow me to begin with my back story:

I am a 25 year old male who graduated from a 4 year college with a Business degree and a concentration in Information Systems. I have been in the business workforce for roughly 2 years. Currently I work for a large mortgage company managing their databases. My main purpose at this job is to process updates to all the different aspects of a mortgage. From a technical standpoint it is a really boring job with no chance to move up within the company.

I am passionate about computers and technology; I have been since a child. However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

For the past several months I have taken the necessary steps to get my NJ teaching certification and to enter the NJ alternate route program. At the same time I have been looking for different teaching positions online and come to the realization that teaching jobs that have something directly to do with computers are few and far between.

What really frustrates me, and is the main purpose of my post, is one teacher I ran into while working a side job fixing computers in the home. This teacher is teaching basic computer skills at the high school level. This person is completely unfamiliar with basic computer terms. I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

Now if you teach English, math, social sciences or any other subject that does not directly deal with computers than I would be perfectly OK with incomprehension of basic computer terms. My entire point is that this woman is teaching directly from some book with no overall knowledge of what she is telling students. On top of this she is taking a job away from someone like me who could do a much better job teaching.

I know this must sound selfish but I feel that teachers like this do more harm than good. There is a real opportunity to do good in the lives of children, but when people see teaching as nothing more than a paycheck it angers me to no end.

If you are still with me in my ranting then I thank you and I ask that you evaluate what you are doing as a teacher and how it could be affecting a child’s life. If teaching is nothing more than a paycheck to you then please consider that damage you are doing to scores of young minds.

And to all those teachers that make a real difference in some students lives, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Unregistered]

I advise you to find some great evil in the world and devote yourself to its overthrow. Leave teachers alone. Public education is the best things going and one hour with the worst teacher you describe is better than 10 years of MTV or Raven, and it's free with no commercials!
Railiing against teachers who don't meet up to your personal standards of excellence is a waste of everyone's time since we've heard it all ad nauseum from one of the regulars here.
Teachers seem to be everyone's favorite target but it's like hunting bunnies with an Uzi. Why not criticize bad lawyers, or bad politicians? No why so many children have asthma? Heard about global warming? Loose nukes in the former USSR. Get a life and do some good.

[Barrry Unregistered]

So, let me get this straight? You've never been in her classroom but you're all lathered up about her not teaching tech the way you think she should?
Do you know if she had time for training yet or was she handed this assignment without any warning and is forced to make it up as she goes along (par for the course in public schools). Do you know if the kids she teaches need sophisticated terminology or just someone to help them turn on the machines and work from a keyboarding program? Do you have any information or are you just looking for a target?

[Unregistered]

The teacher mentioned in the original post has no business teaching computer classes. It would be like a math teacher unfamiliar with a polynomial. We should expect teachers to have a basic understanding of the lesson content.

[Unregistered]

actually it would be like a math teacher not knowing what a square is. Or a gym teacher not knowing how to play kickball...

[Unregistered]

The teacher mentioned in the original post has no business teaching computer classes. It would be like a math teacher unfamiliar with a polynomial. We should expect teachers to have a basic understanding of the lesson content.

Wow, you decided all of that just from reading a third had account from an untrained person who has never been in the teacher's classroom? You are either a god or a numbskull!

[Unregistered]

Wow, you decided all of that just from reading a third had account from an untrained person who has never been in the teacher's classroom?

It doesn't matter which teaching method a teacher uses, a certain amount of content knowledge is required to teach a subject. I don't see how anyone can disagree.

[Unregistered]

You are changing the subject again. You declared, based upon a third party reporter who admitedly never even was in the classroom in question, that "the teacher has no business teaching computer classes."

Now you pretend this is about "a certain amount of content knowledge."

Are you going to make outrageous statements and then refuse to acknowledge you made them?

Do you still stand by your rush to judgement against this teacher you have never met or not?

[Unregistered]

You declared, based upon a third party reporter who admitedly never even was in the classroom in question, that "the teacher has no business teaching computer classes."

... based on an assumption that the original poster's statements were factual. I mean, c'mon!! We make those assumptions all the time in this forum. In fact, we would have a hard time sustaining any argument in here if we didn't.

If the teacher doesn't know, they don't know. Just walking into a classroom isn't going to give them the necessary content knowledge.

If I came into this forum and stated that a history teacher did not know who was Martin Luther King, you would be falling all over yourselves condemning the content knowledge of the teacher and wondering whether he should even be teaching.

By the way, the original poster isn't a third party reporter; he's a second party reporter. We're the third parties.

[Unregistered]

Just curious, are you still suggesting you would go after the tech teacher's job, or have you changed your mind?

[Unregistered]

Has anyone in here made such a statement?

[Unregistered]

The teacher mentioned in the original post has no business teaching computer classes.

The person who wrote this "has no business" passing judgement on the performance of any teacher, especially because she has proven herself far too quick too condemn with no knowledge of the facts and armed only with her hypocritical notions of innate superiority. This stands as a perfect example of someone who needs to build themselves up by irresponsibly pulling down other teachers.

[Unregistered]

This stands as a perfect example of someone who needs to build themselves up by irresponsibly pulling down other teachers.

How can you make such a statement without passing judgment yourself?

What a bunch of hypocrites! You use personal attacks and attribute character flaws to people you don't even know while, at the same time, you complain that people shouldn't judge others.

[Unregistered]

How can you make such a statement without passing judgment yourself?

What a bunch of hypocrites! You use personal attacks and attribute character flaws to people you don't even know while, at the same time, you complain that people shouldn't judge others.

Wow! That's as close to "I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." as I've ever seen from anyone over the age of 4.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't be a teacher. Just that anyone with a hair trigger like yours shouldn't be trusted as a judge of others.

Try turning that one around, because I'm not the one going after other teachers' jobs.

[Unregistered]

Wow! That's as close to "I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." as I've ever seen from anyone over the age of 4.

Just pointing out a blatant inconsistency. If someone wants to prevent others from passing judgment, they shouldn't pass judgment themselves. Stating that someone has a "hair-trigger," is "irresponsible," and "thinks that they are superior" is tantamount to passing judgement on someone else. This is especially true given that no one in this forum actually knows me personally.

It's sheer hypocrisy.

[Peter the Poet]

Hold on. 1. You made a call against some teacher you never met as being unqualified for her job and 2. somebody says that is irresponsible, so 3. you're saying that the person who objects to your going after the teacher you never met is judgemental?

That would be like: 1. I slap someone I never met, and 2. someone tells me that is wrong, so 3. I tell the person who apprehended me to stop picking on me.

That's a neat trick. You could never be wrong about anything that way. Could you teach me how to do that?

[Unregistered]

2. somebody says that is irresponsible,

They said it was JUDGEMENTAL. And in so doing, they in turn passed judgements on my own character, hence the inconsistency.

Replacing the term "judgemental" with "irresponsible" was a good try on your part.

But let me ask you a question: If a history teacher has never heard of Martin Luther King, Jr., is she qualified to teach history? I want to see what standards of content area literacy you hold.

[Peter the Poet]

But let me ask you a question: If a history teacher has never heard of Martin Luther King, Jr., is she qualified to teach history? I want to see what standards of content area literacy you hold.

Depends. I assume you mean if a teacher of American History had never heard of MLK Jr. he would be unqualified. I have a friend who is one of the world's leading scholars of Chinese History who knows little or nothing of American History. I'll bet there are millions of American teachers who cannot tell you the name of the the most famous Chinese Emperors. So it's all relative, eh?

Also, although I was trained in Language Arts (yup, a lowly English Major) I was hired to teach Spanish. My students all spoke the language better than I. I wasn't qualified, obviously. But to hold the teacher responsible for taking on an assignment he wasn't trained for would be grossly unfair. Those teachers should get hazard pay! God forbid we should jump on their case.

In the past 15 years I have taught every junior high subject. It takes me about two years to go from unqualified to highly qualified. I don't understand what some administrators think they are accomplishing by changing teacher assignments just when the teacher is getting good at a discipline, but that happens where I teach more often than not.

Those are some of the reasons why I hesitate to criticize the teacher for what appears at first glance as incompetence. In answer to your question, obviously not qualified, but I'd be really careful about using that as a judgement against the teacher until I knew all the facts.

[Peter the Poet]

I hope you don't mind that I'm switching to High School here even though I teach Jr. High for the past 15 years. I started out as a High School teacher and I still meet bi weekly with a group of teachers who all teach H.S. so I feel like an honorary member of your club.

[Unregistered]

Depends. I assume you mean if a teacher of American History had never heard of MLK Jr. he would be unqualified.

Yes, that is correct. What would you say in this case?

[Unregistered]

Sorry, I see you already answered the question.

Keep in mind that we are not discussing the qualifications of a named individual here, so we are dealing mainly in hypotheticals. After all, the original poster may have his facts screwed up. But if I am to take what he says at face value, then I would wonder about the qualifications of the computer science teacher. While the Average Joe may not be familiar with the term USB, any computer science teacher that pays any attention at all to the field would certainly be. The teacher would have to be living in a cave, in my opinion.

Obviously, there are times when a truly qualified person may not be available, which in that case your stuck.

[RemTheWanderer]

I am glad that people are taking sides over my post. It seems that the main point is that I do not have the right to criticize a teacher based on her out of the classroom content knowledge of computers. Allow me to setup the following scenarios:

1. this teacher teaches the very basics to high school students. Turning a machine on, using windows, sending an email
2. this teacher teaches skills within existing programs such as Office.
3. said teacher teaching a class on programming.

To me these are the three most likely situations in which this teacher is in. Number 3 is out right off the bat. This is an assumption, but if you don’t know what common programs like Microsoft Access does then you would not be able to explain a simple “hello world” program.
In my mind scenario 1 would and should involve pointing out and naming all the different “things” on the front of a computer. For example, explaining how to put a CD into a CD drive, hitting the power button, where to plug headphones in are all things that I would think would be taught in class number 1.
Class number two could easily be taught without ever uttering the words “USB” because all work could be saved onto dozens of floppy disks.

Overall it is my opinion that most HIGH SCHOOL students would know more than this teacher.

Discuss…

[Be Just]

When I taught tech, people would say, "Oh kids know all about computers."
No, sorry, wrong.

Give the average kid a computer, come back in a week, and all that has been done is video gaming. The above average kid will have visited some very naughty sites and tried to download some music. In short, to my constant amazement, students, given the most miraculous tool for acquiring knowledge ever conceived, will almost unanimously waste their time with junk.

This is why a tech teacher is necessary. The ideal teacher is not a "teacher" at all, in my book, but a "facilitator" who guides students into learning situations. The computer room is, for me, the ideal classroom.

The point: I'd rather have a teacher, devoted to knowledge with the ability to guide and inspire students to seek knowledge then a "techie" who knows how to program and take apart a computer blindfolded.

Just because one person knows everything there is to know about computers, that person won't make the best tech teacher as a matter of course. A good, experienced teacher with enthusiasm for inspiring life long learning and the most rudimentary tech skills can walk into a tech room and do a better job than someone who simply worships at the altar of gadgetry.

And that is my, very experienced, opinion.

[Unregistered]

This is why a tech teacher is necessary. The ideal teacher is not a "teacher" at all, in my book, but a "facilitator" who guides students into learning situations. The computer room is, for me, the ideal classroom.

In my opinion, to be a successful facilitator a teacher must be a learner herself. But I cannot see how anyone teaching computer science that isn't familiar with the term USB is a learner. Where is the natural curiosity that drives this teacher to learn the basics of computer technology?

You don't have to be a techie to recognize a USB device. You just have to be at least mildly interested in the subject you are teaching.

[Unregistered]

You don't have to be a techie to recognize a USB device. You just have to be at least mildly interested in the subject you are teaching....or a learner who hasn't got that far yet. If you've never been embarrassed by a student who reminds you of something you didn't know, then you've never been asked to suddenly take on a class outside your major field. If you've never experienced teaching a class because you are needed rather than qualified, you have been sheltered indeed.

[Unregistered]

If you've never experienced teaching a class because you are needed rather than qualified, you have been sheltered indeed.

The issue here is whether or not the teacher in question is qualified, not needed. If I have never heard of Theodore Roosevelt., I can still teach American History. That doesn't make me QUALIFIED to teach the subject, however.

[Remthewanderer]

i am really glad that we can discuss the nature of teaching instead of bashing and flaming each other.

I do not want to harp on my one example but the teacher in question was let go from one high school due to her lack of knowledge.

But I cannot see how anyone teaching computer science that isn't familiar with the term USB is a learner

i think this may be my ultimate point. I want to be a teacher. i am a techie who can put a computer together with my eyes closed and code a website from scratch but i call also explain how to do these things to others without getting frustrated. I am a learner, i love to explore how and why people think the way they think. Organizational Behavior is one of the areas of study where i am still a learner.

i want to teach more than anything. i want to enspire others and make others passionate in the same areas of technology that i am passionate about. I know that every child that walks out of my classroom will run out and become a com sci major in college but if there is just a handful then my job would have been well worth it.

sorry for the rambling but i only have so much time to post while at work. i can not be as eloquent as i would like to be.

[Unregistered]

Qualifications are really the concerns of adminisrators. In a perfect world, teachers would only be placed in postions where they were qualified to teach. The tone of this post has been to hold the teacher responsible. I hope I am wrong about that.

The teacher who is placed in a teaching position she has not been trained for should respond by preparing herself as best she can. However, there is a breaking point. You can hardly blame a teacher who spent her university being trained to teach language for being a little, or much, behind when assigned to teach chemistry. I have known teachers who have experienced this and spent their own time and money to, essentially, change careers in mid stream. Then, just as the teacher becomes qualified, due to her own efforts, she is transferred to another teaching field.

Now,the casual or overly judgemental observer might stumble into this classroom at the beginning of the transition and get the wrong idea about the teacher, more or less, blaming the fireman for the fire.

Another point of consideration, is the teacher who began full of fire and after being shuffled, in a seemingly random fashion, but the very people who are suppossed to be in charge of placing qualfied teachers. Suppose you come upon this teacher in the depth of the depression that was created for her after years of being misplaced and expending energy and money to bridge gaps that were then recreated.

Again, all too easy to blame the teacher. Simple fact: administrators place qualified teachers, or don't. If there is a forum for adminstrators, the lament that began this conversation belongs there.

[Unregistered]

I never blamed the teacher. However, I did question her qualifications.

She may be the sweetest lady in the world and have all the best intentions, but she really needs to open her eyes to the subject matter if she really wants to teach it.

In my opinion.

[Unregistered]

I never blamed the teacher. However, I did question her qualifications.

She may be the sweetest lady in the world and have all the best intentions, but she really needs to open her eyes to the subject matter if she really wants to teach it.

In my opinion.

Amazingly enough, I think we've found our middle ground on this one.

[Unregistered]

I agree that there are many many teachers who don't have the knowledge that they should about their subject area. I understand your frustrastion, RemtheWanderer (I think that was your name). I was nearly as apalled as you were when I was forced into a very awkward position this past fall. The school where I'm teaching was hosting a workshop for all the teachers in the conference. In the afternoon, all the teachers broke off into the subject areas that they taught. All the teachers from my school were then left to host these smaller subject area meetings. This left me in charge of all of the music teachers. As a first year teacher, I felt very nervous. However, after greeting the teachers and introducing some topics of discussion, my nervousness left as I realized their ineptness. I will say that I teach in one of the smallest schools in the state and all of the schools in my conference are small as well; but although the schools we teach at have fewer resources and less prestige to offer teachers, that should not give an excuse to be unprofessional and lack the knowledge every music teacher should have. So I believe that you have a valid point, and I wish that all the people out there who could fill a teaching position better than those currently holding positions would be able to find jobs.

[Unregistered]

If you think music is bad, you should check out the content knowledge in ELA and science. I find it hard to believe that some of our teaches actually earned a college degree at some point in their lives.

[Unregistered]

Yes, if only schools were as efficient as, say, the Federal Government. I am quite amazed at the highly trained, well qualified people in charge of our nation. Then there is the health care system, that is so wonderfully run that every child needing medical attention receives quick diagnosis and treatment.

Seriously,the teachers who complain the most are the ones with the least experience outside of the classroom. If you've ever worked in the private sector, especially the corporate sector, or any goverment branch, you will come back to school with a whole other appreciation of the amazing feats we accomplish on a daily basis.

What do you hope to accomplish by complaining about how unskilled your peers are? Can't you just take pride in your own craft and be a good example? Get involved in teacher training and do something positive and leave the whine for tonight's celebration.

[Unregistered]

Yes, if only schools were as efficient as, say, the Federal Government. I am quite amazed at the highly trained, well qualified people in charge of our nation. Then there is the health care system, that is so wonderfully run that every child needing medical attention receives quick diagnosis and treatment.

We're not talking about the Federal Government or doctors. Even if they are inept as you suggest, that doesn't help the situation in education any.

The "We're not as bad as the rest" excuse is, well, an excuse.

Seriously,the teachers who complain the most are the ones with the least experience outside of the classroom.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

If you've ever worked in the private sector, especially the corporate sector, or any goverment branch, you will come back to school with a whole other appreciation of the amazing feats we accomplish on a daily basis.

I worked in IT and research science for many years. The expertise I found there was incredible.

What do you hope to accomplish by complaining about how unskilled your peers are? Can't you just take pride in your own craft and be a good example? Get involved in teacher training and do something positive and leave the whine for tonight's celebration.

One of the primary purposes of this forum is to discuss what we think are the problems with education. I didn't come here looking for feel-good therapy. If you require only happy thoughts to get through the day, I suggest you become very careful before perusing this site.

There is another thread in this forum where people are complaining about the NCLB. I suggest you get in there and squelch the whining.

[Unregistered]

One of the primary purposes of this forum is to discuss what we think are the problems with education.

Okay, all I ask is that you bring up issues that teachers can do something about. Complaining about other teachers accomplishes nothing. If you are in a postion to do something about changing the way teachers are credentialed and hired, then fine, improve it. Let us know here how you accomplish it. If all you want to do is complain about how bad the guy in the next room is, then don't be surprised if functional people find it annoying.

[Unregistered]

Teachers sure are an in-bred group.

Too many have led such limited lives: k-12 then off to college then into a classroom.

Of course, the "system" run by plutocrats and pandering politicians ensures that teachers are extremely limited as to what and how they can teach.

One thing I noticed while prancing through the public schools was an obvious anti-male bias. No, no bias towards the feminized girly-men so valued by feminists, the politically correct and apparently the vast majority of those working within educational systems. What I saw was not only a bias but FEAR towards men who do not conform to the demands of the new society that places warm fuzziness above all else.

Flee, flee teaching. The educational system is corrupt and beyond redemption. If I had kids I would do whatever necessary to keep them out of the clutches of the politically correct and an educational system whose main concern is preserving a status quo that benefits a very small percentage of Americans who spit into the faces of the common folks.

[Unregistered]

I'm sure that last post will upset most, but I thank you for saying the unsayable.

I'm a man who works in the system as "a teacher." It has not been easy. The bias against men is very, very real. But guess what, bro? A real man can handle it, and boy, do those kids need and appreciate someone to communicate with instead of be told by.

I invite you to read the thread about bias and prejudice and see what you think.

[Unregistered]

Okay, all I ask is that you bring up issues that teachers can do something about.

If there was something I would do about it, I would. The problem would be solved, and I wouldn't have anything to discuss.

If you are seriously planning on objecting to every complaint in this forum, then you will be very busy. Part of the interest in posting here is to gripe. We all do it.

Now if you are really serious about your post, then let me offer you the following:

I will gripe in this forum. There is nothing you can do about it. Therefore, there is no point in you griping about my griping.

[Unregistered]

Thanks, I appreciate someone finally being honest about it. I don't mind the whining as long as we don't pretend it is something noble like "to discuss what we think are the problems with education." I can be just as good a listener as the next guy, but don't expect me to pretend we're discussing educational theory when all we're doing is venting against someone because they don't see things the way we do.

And by the way, when you whine around adults, you shouldn't be suprised if you get called on it.

[Unregistered]

I can be just as good a listener as the next guy...

Sure, if you like what you hear. But if you don't, you write it off as whining. That is why I don't see you posting complaints in the forums discussing the NCLB. You probably don't like the NCLB (or Bush, or both), so you have no problems with people complaining about it.

Sorry, but I just hate it when someone takes it upon himself to decide what we can or cannot discuss.

[Unregistered]

Write about whatever you want. I could care less. Just be honest about it. I didn't call you out for complaining but for pretending you were discussing the problems of education. Now you've turned it into a free speech issue! Get real.

[Unregistered]

Just be honest about it.

Why not get in there and tell those squawking about the NCLB to quit complaining, Mr. Honesty? (Oh, I forgot. You agree with them.)

[Unregistered]

I have no idea what the NCLB has to do with your complaining about other teachers. I have no opinion either way about the NCLB. As far as I can tell, it hasn't made a bit of difference in the way I do my job. But I would consider a discussion on how to improve Federal mandates or teacher performance to be worthwhile reading. On the other hand, what good does it do to go on and on about how lousy either is? Let's talk practical solutions. You can do that, can't you?

[BigDaddyTeacher]

I have no idea what the NCLB has to do with your complaining about other teachers. I have no opinion either way about the NCLB. As far as I can tell, it hasn't made a bit of difference in the way I do my job.

Ah, but depending on where you teach, it could affect you by the end of the school year. This link:
http://www.sandi.net/nclb/HOUSSE.html
should take you to the San Diego USD site that discusses the requirements for teachers to become "Highly Qualified" in their subject matter by the end of the 05/06 school year.

As far as I can tell, that affects me directly, and will make quite a bit of difference in how I do my job. My original bachelor's degree is business management - not exactly something that's covered in the state education standards - so I am required to prove my knowledge in math, english, social studies and science by taking several exams...at my own expense (currently about $75 per test). I will get reimbursed, but only if I pass. Should I fail, it's an out of pocket expense, and I have to try again.

So, come March, May, and July, I'll be spending most of a Saturday each month sitting in chairs too small for my frame, with about a dozen #2 pencils, one big eraser, working to let GWB know I'm a Highly Qualified Teacher.

[Unregistered]

I see your point, BDT. I guess its a bit selfish of me to consciously ignore the federal interventions since I was Houssed in 5 subjects last year. I am fortunate enough to be a "highly qualified teacher" by their definition (not boasting).

I am sorry for you and all of the other teachers who have had their lives disrupted. I don't think anyone should interfere with teachers unless they have spent real time in the trenches, and then only with a great deal of humility. But then I'm neither a Nascar Dad or a Church Lady and I work for a living.

[Unregistered]

FYI- I have a masters from Harvard. Extensive corporate tech support background, and great love for teaching computers in classrooms... It is my vocation. I love children. My blank stares in question stemmed from having someone start a conversation about "Whats Wrong with teachers and Why cant I teach instead" that I had no interest in participating in... I don't waste my time joining strangers in heated rantings or ravings or supplying my resume or job experience. How fun, though, to read the lively discussions. Excellent discourse.

[Unregistered]

Wait, you are the person who was being called stupid at the top of this post? How did that happen? I'm the guy who has been telling everyone that it is wrong to judge without knowing all the facts. Are you backing me up here? If so, I'd sure like a little more information about the incident that started this whole post. After all the virulent attacks, I'd begun to wonder whether there was any justice left.

[Unregistered]

Shame on you.
I used to work corporate also and switched to teaching computers at the high school level. I taught for 6 years in private church school (loved it) then married, needed more pay and jumped into public school. What followed was a shocking jolt of reality. I was hired to teach computers to 9th graders at a continuation high school, 2 wks into my school year I was transferred to a middle school Opportunity Program classroom. Which is essentially bad kids kicked out and on lock-down with me for ALL subjects for 4 hours a day. I was told to teach ALL the subjects (which I knew nothing about). That was the worst assignment of my life!! I can't begin to guess how much damage I did to 20 kids for a whole year of no real math, science ect. (my only consolation is the fact that they weren't learning to begin with.) Perhaps this teacher you met was cast to the wolves and was doing the best she could. I know I sure went into survival mode!

[Unregistered]

Well, the original poster and the folks who followed up by jumping all over this teacher (who turns out to be wholly qualified and entirely misrepresented) are strangely silent now. Suitably cowed I hope. Let this be a lesson for those who rush to judgement without knowing the facts. There's at least one regular who complains continuously about other teachers who has dropped her name and moved on to the New and Student Teacher thread to try and sell her doctrine that the more experienced teachers are the worst. For all you who stood up for this teacher, good work! As the last poster made clear, we don't get to pick our assignments, and often get ones we aren't trained for. For that,we deserve a medal, not criticism from the peanut gallery.

[Unregistered]

Well, the original poster and the folks who followed up by jumping all over this teacher (who turns out to be wholly qualified and entirely misrepresented) are strangely silent now. Suitably cowed I hope.

Nope. I'm still here.

As I said before, the issue is whether the teacher in question is QUALIFIED to teach the subject. Don't try to make it into a personal issue.

We all have our opinions on the matter; I haven't changed mine one bit.

[RemTheWanderer]

i am not quiet either. The teacher in question is not wholly qualified. She does not know the subject matter for what she is teaching. She reads from the assigned text book and follows those lessons verbatim. that is not real teaching. I can take any recent college grad and have them do that. I know the facts for the case i used in my very first post. I know them even better now that i did when i first posted. I am refraining from harping on this one example over and over but i have come to find out that this teacher mainly teaches microsoft Office applications yet does not know how to do some of the most basic functions of these programs. Creating a formula in excel is a challege to this teacher and i had to show her how it is done.

I am quiet because i am doing something about all of this. I have just started a alternate route program at my local college which keeps me busier at work and after work. My hope is that i can find a job teaching what i want to teach and not get thrown into some subject that i know very little about.

[rem's namen]

I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

This teacher is being judged based on Rem's interpretation of his/her FACIAL EXPRESSIONS?! If the teacher really doesn't know what he was talking about, he/she is obviously NOT CERTIFIED IN THAT FIELD and was probably just handed the class because they didn't have anyone else.

THIS DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO "STUPID TEACHERS".

[Unregistered]

I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

So the people you work with are incompetent and the teacher is stupid. I guess that makes you the only smart person you know? :)

[Unregistered]

I don't recall him saying that the teacher was stupid, just uninformed.

Again, let's not turn this into a personal thing. No one is suggesting that the teacher has done anything wrong. From time to time we are often placed in situations where we are inadequately prepared, so I can understand the teacher's predicament. But that doesn't mean she really should be teaching the class.

[are you serious?]

I don't recall him saying that the teacher was stupid, just uninformed.



Then I guess the TITLE to this thread doesn't call her stupid?


I am amazed at the stupidity of some teachers

[Unregistered]

I completely overlooked the title of the thread. You are right, the statement REM makes in the title is uncalled for.

However, I didn't see anything in his posts that I would find insulting.

[Jane Banks]

Rem,

Your observations are keen and I might add commonplace. I've been increasingly shocked by the lack of content knowledge held by many of our business and technology teachers. Thank you for having the guts to air your frustration in a teacher's venue. Best of luck to you and I look forward to learning more.

Jane a teacher of students, business and technology

[Peter the Poet]

It takes no guts whatsoever to attack someone else who is doing a job. What takes courage is to go to work every day and to do your very best with what you have. If you are given an assigment you did not train for, then you work to become proficient as you do the job to the best of your ability. That, my fellow educators, is true courage. As the great teacher once pointed out, those most interested in finding fault in others are generally blind to their own. Here's a Haiku to help you see the point:

Would be eye surgeon:
remove the plank from your eye
before surgery.

[Remthewanderer]

hello everyone,

just checking in on my post. Glad it is stiring up the emotions.

i want to address the title of my thread first. I used this title so that i would get others to read what i posted. i use strong words when i am frustrated and considering my current position i should have used MUCH stronger words. I do not regret using these words as they reflect my feelings at the time of the first post.

that leads me into the other topic people have responded to, and that is that the teacher in my example was "thrown into" this assignment as a computer teacher. This is not the case. She was hired to teach a technology class. She was already let go from another high school after 2 years because she did not know the subject matter she was teaching. At a second high school teaching the same material she still does not know the subject matter she is teaching. Anyone can put up overheads or power point slides and read from them. There is no training as a teacher needed for that. this is what she does. i know because i asked her how she taught. this is the basis of my anger but i neglected to mention this in my first post. Big WOOPS on my part.

as for "rem's namen" and her/his post. I was using the phrase "facial expressions" to convey that this teacher looks completely confused at my statement and then i had to explain it to her slowly because she had never heard the term before. again, when i wrote my first post i was full of emotion and did not proofread the entire thing as carefully as i could have.

I really think people should stop nit picking about the verbage in my original post and read some of the follow ups i have posted.

Jane Banks: thank you for being one of the few people to put your name to your post. I do not find negative comments from people who post as "Unregistered" or something other than a screen name to help this situation at all. if you want to share an opinion at least have the guts to use a name that identifies you.

so to the person who posted at 01-11-2006 03:09 PM, yes I am the only smart person in the entire world... :/

I work with some really dumb people. not everyone but a good portion are not really qualified to do their job properly. The reason it is scary is that i work for a company that is very important to every person who owns a home. I can not mention it specifically because the company just made a rule that if anyone is caught bad mouthing the company on the internet they would be fired.

I know there are very smart people who teach. I hope to be one of the good ones some day. I want to give my respect to those teachers that do do a good job. thank you all!

Rem

[Be Just]

1. I notice you didn't respond to the party who claims to be the teacher in question. Why not?

2. It sounds like you haven't completed your teacher training yet. Have you been admitted into a teacher training program? The reason I ask is that this forum is visited regularly by people, claiming to be teachers, who love to attack other teachers. Don't be misled by the rhetoric. You are going to go through a pretty tough screening process. One of the things we'll be looking for is your ability to work with a wide selection of people and learning and teaching styles. If you come across like you have here, there's a good chance you'll be on the outside looking in as far as education goes.

Before you take it personally, think about the company you work for now. Somebody comes in for a job and during the interview they let it be known the kind of folks in your industry that don't belong. Oops. You just described half the department.

Best to become an inexperienced member of a profession before you set yourself up as the guy who gets to pick the sheep from the goats. (I assume you're joking about the "I'm smarter than everyone" line. Otherwise, I've just wasted 4 and a half minutes on this keyboard.

Just some thoughts.

[Remthewanderer]

answer to number 1: I did not see this post. Can you tell me who it is by and what page it is on? I post from my work where I only have 15 minute breaks and a lot of the internet to checkup on so I may have breezed through it.

Answer to number 2. I am enrolled in a teacher training program for the alternate route. I WANT to teach. I WANT to inspire. I realize that not every student I will have will be as passionate as I am but I want kids to be better prepared for an ever growing technological society and turning on the computer is the important first step. I understand that teaching is not about teaching those that want to learn (teaching those students is easy) but it is more about reaching those who might not want to learn or learn slower than others. That is where teachers need to work in order to really earn their paycheck. I want to teach so that I can reach those kids.

My frustration is that I want to teach a subject that is very specialized. Every high school has a handful of history teachers or english teachers but not many computer teachers.(if any at all). Finding a job identical to what I want to do is harder than others who may be looking for a history position, so when I see someone who is taking up space as a computer teacher it makes me mad and I came here to express it. I understand that in the interview process or in the classroom I would be laughed out of the room if I vented like I did here. I understand that I will be working with other teachers that have varying degrees of competence and that part of working is co existing with these people and the politics of schools.

I try to use humor when possible but some of the time it is not conveyed properly through the internet. I will have to check my network connection and see what the problem is...

The important point here is that: I WANT TO TEACH. I vented after discovering something that troubled me. I am glad it sparked discussion, whether I am right or wrong, isn’t that what learning is all about?

[Tejas Gal]

I must be pretty incompetent, then--even though I made a better living from computer applications work (desktop publishing, etc.) than from teaching, before I re-discovered that money is not what motivates me.

Unless the course you're describing is different from most, the curriculum involves teaching the USE of computers--not the hardware itself. Students are taught to use word-processing, spreadsheet, database, and presentation applications to create documents, etc. I've been doing that for about 20 years now, and I know VERY few of the types of terms to which you're referring. I do know about USB, but only because I needed to be able to connect peripherals at home; since most districts have a tech coordinator who jealously guards the secrets of the connections and servers, I would never have needed to know which cable went where to be able to teach a student how to create a PowerPoint slide show.

Get all the facts about the situation, visit the classroom, and THEN you might get close to being able to evaluate this (and any other) teacher.

[Unregistered]

Well said, Tejas Gal. I taught tech for two years before this. When I started, I knew very little. By the end of the two years, I was Certified to the Second Level and am now quite proficient with tech. I have a dynamite portfolio of lesson plans! Of course, this year I'm teaching language arts...

Careful Tejas Gal. As soon as you get good at a subject, some younger model will come along and bat her baby blues and you'll be teaching gym or science and listening to some wanker complaining you're not qualified.

What is it about administrators that they distrust people who are good at their job?

[Remthewanderer]

yes, Tejas Gal, you are correct. Most computer classes in public schools focus on software, i am aware of this. This is something that i would enjoy teaching. What i find in the real world is that there are adults that have worked in front of a computer for years and have no concept what to do if their mouse stops working or their screen does not turn on. What i would really love to incorporate is a lesson or two, two lessons at the VERY most, where i show the students how a computer works (basic, very basic) and what to do if something basic goes wrong. ie: what plug goes where. I used the example of USB because that is what came up in conversation.

[remthewanderer]

be just i think i found the post you are referring to. post number 46 on page 5. am i correct? If so i do not believe that this person is correctly informed. Definately not the teacher from my original post.

[Be Just]

Yes. I just thought that was too big a coincidence. I wondered why nobody else reacted since she claims to be the person you were talking about.

[Unregistered]

I know that this conversation has deviated a little from the original post and I haven't read all 7 pages, but I wanted to respond to it none-the-less. I think that while you (the original poster) may be justified in being annoyed with the knowledge, or lack there of, that this teacher possess I think it's important that you realize a few things:

1. She might feel the same way (frustrated that she doesn't know more).
2. She may have been told to teach the course regardless of knowledge, because she's the "low man" on the ladder.

I've seen this happen often in various schools. Recently, in a system that I am familiar with, a superintendent added a class to the program of studies. This addition came under the math department so a math teacher needed to teach it. Unfortunately no one in the math department had any experience with the material so a new teacher was selected to teach it. He was given the text book and a "good luck" a few weeks before classes started. He was left with no other option than to research and use the book he had in front of him. He then discovered that there was a History teacher in the school with experience in the course material and tapped into her knowledge. My first thought was this; "If this new teacher could find a qualified teacher in the school, why couldn't the admin?"

Bottom line - sometimes it's not about finding the right person (unfortunately), it's about budget and pleasing the administration. So while your anger may be justified, it may be inappropriately placed...Just some thoughts to chew on.

In the mean time keep looking for a job and channel your anger so that it can guide you to becoming a great teacher!!!

[lelo21]

I think that all people struggle with misrepresenting what they know either for fear or embarassment. Teachers are only one example, though their knowledge is constantly on display.


SAT Vocabulary Defined in Hip-Hop Music (http://www.flocabulary.com)

Bringing Hip-Hop (http://www.flocabulary.com/hiphop.html) into the Classroom (http://www.flocabulary.com/teachers.html) since 2005

[Unregistered]

I haven't bothered with all 7 pages either, but I agree that far too many teachers are absolutely clueless and NO exposure to a bad teacher isn't better than nothing and certainly not as effecive as the discover channel or the history channel. NONE of my kids math teacher could actually teach math. Several simply couldn't do that math correctly let alone be effective teachers. I've had to teach my kids math dispite paying HUGE taxes to pay the salaries of these worthless teachers.

As long as there is tenure and teachers unions protecting teachers that can't teach and teachers get assigned to teach something they know nothing or littel about because they are "low man" ... education (public or private) will be far less effective than it could be.

[Tom Tuttle]

I haven't bothered with all 7 pages either, but I agree that far too many teachers are absolutely clueless...

Probably haven't set foot in a classroom for 27 years. Teachers baby sitting spoiled kids whose parents blame teachers is the problem and the clueless ones are the ones who don't know whats going on because they haven't taken the time to find out. You try teaching 40 kids with no respect and then you're qualified to judge. We've lost 8 highly qualified math teachers in the last 4 years because they couldn't teach. Was it because they didn't know math? No. They weren't experts on walking that thin line between boot camp D.I and kiss up poliitician that it takes to do this job. Main problem? P.W.C's (Parents without clues).

[Unregistered]

I normally do not respond to threads, but I just couldn't resist. Many times teachers are thrown into classes because of changes. This is very unfortunate for both teachers and students.

My main peeve is that teachers are always targeted by others who wouldn't spend time with their child unless they were paid or threatened with jail! Our school is already in it's second semester; yet I still have high school students that come to classes daily (I teach 11th gr English) without book, pen, paper, homework, etc. and come with beligerent attitudes just as icing on the cake. Yet, when you contact the parents, I have been told that I was "picking on their child". If you don't like what teachers are doing, then you should spend time homeschooling your own children and let's see how long you put up with this kind of behavior.

Children mimick the behavior of their parents and value what you value. If you don't value education, then they won't either. I, as many other teachers, have chosen this profession to make a difference. Not to have a daily sparring match with your child. If he/she doesn't want to learn or obey the rules of the classroom, keep them home. They (your child) is a major disruption/distraction to the other students that want to be there. If they are at school just to socialize, keep them home. There are plenty of hours after school for them to "hang out".

Also, I have heard kids mimicking the words of their parents how the "foreigners" are taking all the jobs, etc. It's ironic that I always hear these comments from the students that are failing. My response to them is that they are not taking your job because you're not qualified or preparing yourself to become qualified to do it anyway.

America offers free education to everyone, yet many of our kids are more interested in how much "belly skin" they can show or how tight their jeans can be before they get sent home. This is a tradegy


So when your child is failing, instead of bashing a teacher - look at your own actions or lack thereof!

[Unregistered]

There's plenty of blame to go around. I know of some bad parents, and I also know of some teachers who foster misbehavior by their very own class management skills. The parents blame the teachers; the teachers blame the parents.

For the most part, kids are kids. The vast majority of them will behave when taught using effective teaching practices. Naturally there are exceptions. And obviously there are some parents out there that are real jerks.

I suggest pinpointing a few students who are chronic misbehavers and ask the rest of their teachers what they are like in the classroom.

[Be Just]

This discussion, which is a variation of the same blame game going on in every school in Amerika, always reminds me of the sinking ship. The Captain is blaming the Navigator who blames the Bosun who blames the First Mate, and so on down the line. They all fail to realize that the problem is the ship.

Mandatory school is a bad idea that is so bad it can never be fixed. Forcing people to come to school to learn is a joke that is not funny. Until we stop sending this leaky ship to sea, it will keep on sinking. The only person who can learn is someone who wants to learn. Schools full of pampered children repreived from the realities of existence under the false pretence of education results in no learning for anyone.

I suggest we educators open the discussion to make schools open for people who want to learn. A couple of months in a factory or a field will open many a closed mind.

[Unregistered]

You can either travel in the leaky ship, or stay home. The problem is that "home" in this case means "no education."

Mandatory school is a bad idea that is so bad it can never be fixed. Forcing people to come to school to learn is a joke that is not funny. Until we stop sending this leaky ship to sea, it will keep on sinking. The only person who can learn is someone who wants to learn.

That line is just an excuse for failure. When teachers fail to teach their kids, they can just say, "Oh, they didn't want to learn."

Hand me any grade level math standard, and I will teach it to every kid in my class. Does that mean every kid wants to learn? Maybe it does. Does that mean you can teach a kid who doesn't want to learn? You decide.

I suggest we educators open the discussion to make schools open for people who want to learn. A couple of months in a factory or a field will open many a closed mind.

How are you planning on putting a third-grader in a factory? Or are you thinking that we should begin Kindergarten at the legal age for adulthood?

[Unregistered]

To the last poster: if you can't think outside the box, don't bother to respond to conversations suggesting systemic solutions. Do you really think people who are looking at the big picture and searching for social solutions want to hear your little speech about math standards for the umpteenth time?

We all get it Lisa. You are the world's greatest teacher in your own book. You don't have to offer that observation as the solution to every post.

[Be Just]

How are you planning on putting a third-grader in a factory? Or are you thinking that we should begin Kindergarten at the legal age for adulthood?

Pick up a history book or read about life for children in Asia and Africa. In nearly every culture but our own, children begin to do adult work as soon as they are able.

If you think that is inhumane, track the average high school graduate to note the shock faced by going from an artificially extended childhood to today's specialized job market.

If you have not experienced the disregard,even hostility, that students have toward their mandatory education, you must be either very fortunate or oblique.

My first job was at eight years old. From that time till now, I have worked and earned income. When I went to college, I paid my own way and treated every minute as if it were precious.

Your calvalier dismissal of the idea that students do something with the their time besides come to school for six hours seems a tad reactionary. Don't you have anything concrete to say about this suggestion? I am open to ideas, but defending the status quo hardly qualifies as new thinking.

[Unregistered]

I'm a high school student and I completely agree that some teachers are incompetent for the job. Kids in my class constantly have to correct my chemistry techer in everything she teaches and its so frustrating. I barely understand anything she says because she's constantly changing her mind or teaches us the wrong material which ends up on a test. It's gone up to the point where I've gone to other teachers to tutor me where they actually know what they're doing.

[Unregistered]

Pick up a history book or read about life for children in Asia and Africa. In nearly every culture but our own, children begin to do adult work as soon as they are able.

You are incorrect.

The minimum age to work is 16 in China. In Turkey it is 15. In Zaire, India, Nepal, Ivory Coast, and Bangladesh it is 14. In Thailand and Nigeria it is 12.

There are some countries that allow children to work at a very young age. But most of the child labor that is in the news is actually illegal, but hidden from the authorities.

We don't want our work force to be flooded with 10 year olds, like it was in the Victorian Era.

If you think that is inhumane, track the average high school graduate to note the shock faced by going from an artificially extended childhood to today's specialized job market.

If you have not experienced the disregard,even hostility, that students have toward their mandatory education, you must be either very fortunate or oblique.

Then I must be very fortunate, because my students don't seem to hate schooling all that much. Sure, they whine a little. But I wouldn't consider many of them to be openly hostile.

My first job was at eight years old. From that time till now, I have worked and earned income. When I went to college, I paid my own way and treated every minute as if it were precious.

Sure, and Richard Feynman was forced to go to school and he ended up being a Nobel Prize-winning physicist. So whose anecdote is more important? His or yours?

You can't formulate policy based on your own experiences.

Your calvalier dismissal of the idea that students do something with the their time besides come to school for six hours seems a tad reactionary. Don't you have anything concrete to say about this suggestion? I am open to ideas, but defending the status quo hardly qualifies as new thinking.

Reactionary? You want to turn the clock back to the 1800s and you call me "reactionary"?

[Unregistered]

To the last poster: if you can't think outside the box, don't bother to respond to conversations suggesting systemic solutions. Do you really think people who are looking at the big picture and searching for social solutions want to hear your little speech about math standards for the umpteenth time?

My post was a response to the statement:

The only person who can learn is someone who wants to learn.

Do you agree with that sentiment? I certainly don't. If I did, I would have quit trying to reach every kid in my class a long time ago.

So, do you agree with that sentiment?

If so, what do you do for those in your class you judge "unwilling to learn"?

How do you determine who is willing to learn?

How certain are you that they are truly unwilling to learn?

Will you answer my questions?

We all get it Lisa. You are the world's greatest teacher in your own book. You don't have to offer that observation as the solution to every post.

There is nothing special about me. If I can teach the kids the lesson content, why can't everyone? What is really so hard about it?

[mrreese40]

It might be helpful for you (initial poster) to take the time to hekp familiarize the teacher you are talking about with the terminolgy you say she does not understand to help her. Someone might see that or she might know someone who might be able to hire you and her character reference letter might be the key to unlocking the door to your newfound employment in the wonderful world of education.

When you know more than a person and that person is the one with the job, it is your responsibility to help that person. We don't have enough of that going on nowadays, especially in education. One person nows more than the other and instead of sharing it's a competition. Don't get me wrong, I am as competitive as competitive gets buts if you need help and I know answers, I will help. Just some food for thought.

[remthewanderer]

i had a hard time reading that last post mrreese40 but i will do my best to decipher it.

When you know more than a person and that person is the one with the job, it is your responsibility to help that person

my time is worth money. If someone wants to pay me to teach the teacher then fine, i will be more than happy.

[Unregistered]

When you know more than a person and that person is the one with the job, it is your responsibility to help that person. We don't have enough of that going on nowadays, especially in education.

I think it is the teacher's responsiblity to hunt down the information they will need to teach the subject to some level of competence.

[Unregistered]

I think it is the teacher's responsiblity to hunt down the information they will need to teach the subject to some level of competence.



Everyone needs help at some point. Teachers are supposed to be life-long learners, which means no teacher is ever expected to know all there is about a subject or teaching in general.

[Unregistered]

i had a hard time reading that last post mrreese40 but i will do my best to decipher it.



my time is worth money. If someone wants to pay me to teach the teacher then fine, i will be more than happy.


That's sad! I am in no position to judge, but you might be in the wrong profession. If you are in education for money, good luck. If you in education for to help others (students/teachers/other educators) with ideas or new info. then more educators like you are needed. Good luck in yuor search for $$$$$$$$$.

Maybe you should get with a company so you can do in-services to other teachers to get that $ you are looking for!

[Be Just]

Sorry to gang up on you REm, but the last two posters have a point. Maybe you better keep wandering. Teaching is an idealistic profession. We have our share of folks who are just in it for the money or who spend most of their time critcizing other teachers, but we're not looking to hire on more of that sort.

On the other hand if you want a job that takes every bit of talent and effort you've got, one that you'll never be satisified with yourself till you've given the best you've got,and even then you'll be looking to improve, jump right in.

Don't be surprised if teachers get defensive and ciricle the wagons when we hear someone taking potshots. We rarely get constructive criticism. Most of the people who know how to do our job better than we do either don't have a clue, or, more rarely, can't feel good about themselves without tearing down others. The job demands the best, and a good teacher doesn't need anyone to tell how to get the job done better. We're too busy giving it our all to do the best we can for the children!

[Unregistered]

The job demands the best, and a good teacher doesn't need anyone to tell how to get the job done better.

All teachers need advice on how to improve. What are you talking about?

[remthewanderer]

I think everyone who read my last post is automatically assuming that I am looking for tons of money. That is completely wrong.

What I said was that my time was worth money.

Everyone’s time is worth money.

I am not saying that my time is more valuable than any other teacher but it seems as if Mrreese40 wants me to teach this teacher out of the goodness of my heart for free. I can not afford to do this.

If someone wants to pay me a fair salary to teach teachers how to better utilize technology then I would be really happy to teach like that.

I am not naive; I understand that teachers do not make really great money. However, the average teacher in my state makes more money than I currently do and because of contracts, on average, teachers in my state get bigger raises every year compared to the raises at the company I work for now.

i think people are jumping to conclusions without ever understanding what i post.

[Unregistered]

No, we understand you better than you think we do. You're not going to like this job. But hey, the number one thing is to be FLEXIBLE while holding to your core values. It's a heck of an adjustment no matter who you are, so good luck.

[Unregistered]

No, we understand you better than you think we do. You're not going to like this job.

I'm not sure he will like his job or not, and no one else in here is certain either. If he holds a no-nonsense, no excuses approach he may very well love his job.

[remthewanderer]

Does anyone read what I write? It takes dedication to read an eight page thread from beginning to end. I find that 99% of the problems on message boards are that people jump into the middle of the conversation without knowing what is really going on.


I love teaching!!!!!!!!!! Just because I have not done it in a classroom setting officially using tools like the anticipatory set or bloom's taxonomy or writing down lesson plans (see I am learning in my alternate route class!) does not mean anything.

I can not begin to count the number of times I have taught someone about computer care and used the analogy of how taking care of a computer is like taking car of your car and its engine. Before my alternate route class I never learned how to get someone to relate to the info I am trying to teach. This just came very naturally to me.

Being a teacher means being able to make split second decisions to keep the pace of the class on target while making sure the learners understand the given topic.

[Unregistered]

"Du Calme, Du Calme"

You may love teaching someone how to work on a computer or engine, but how do you feel about keeping 45 adolescents focused and on task day after day? Now add bureaucratic nonsense that adds hours of paperwork to the already daunting task of correcting 250 papers a day, endless meetings with no real point, and you begin to see the difference between teaching and a career in education. You may love this job, but if you do, it will require, patience, fliexibility, compassion, and, above all, the ability to remain calm in the heart of darkness.
As the testy poster just pointed out, I can't tell you whether you'll love it or hate it, but I can tell you that the qualities evidenced by your initial posting make a poor starting point.

[Unregistered]

Teachers also have to be willing to accept criticism and make changes to improve their methods. You can add both to the list.

[Unregistered]

before you jump to some conclusion of incompetence you should check the usage and/or spelling of "dieing"

[Unregistered]

Yes, and often you will be criticized by morons, like administrators and other analtypes who correct spelling online - a techie no-no. This site a'int one of your assignments. The nature of online communication is spontanaity - which means we must learn to live with typos. If the medium doesn't provide Spellcheck, you're not the proofreader, honey.

[remthewanderer]

First off: the definition of "dieing" from dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dieing

So please Mr. or Ms. Grammar/Spelling police person please do not lock me up and take away the key. While I may not be close to perfect, my mother, the former English teacher, might just be proud of me...

and to those who have been so kind as to let me know about the long hours grading papers or the meetings with no points or being able to accept criticism, I would like to know if you have ever held a job other than teaching.

Since everyone has been so kind as to help me know what teaching is really about I hope every teacher understands that these aspects of work are evident in the majority of larger business in America. The movie Office Space was not entirely a work of fiction.

The only real challenge for teachers is being able to hold the attention of a classroom full of kids. I admire any teacher who can do this well. However, I wonder what students would say about you if asked whether or not you were a good teacher! (This is not directed at any one person posting on this message board)

It is my hope that your students would say nice things about you but if they do not there is a deeper problem. If a student takes the time to bad mouth a teacher then that teacher may want to look within to see why that attitude is present. Now I understand that there are extra circumstances involved when asking students whether or not they like their teachers, but if the trend of responses is more negative then there should be SOMETHING that gets changed. But I digress...

[remthewanderer]

thank you to the last poster before me. i was typing my response and you beat me to it!

[Unregistered]

Dieing refers to the skill in creating dies (tools), not the act of dying.

[peter the poet]

this thread is unraveling - how sad - it was so strong for awhile. odd.

begun as a tale told by anidiot, it strutted nobly upon this stage, and now is heard no more...

[Unregistered]

If you keep making mistakes like "anidiot," you will become known as peter the (bad) poet. :D

[Unregistered]

and if you keep playing typocop, you can sign in as "irrelevant".
note: one way to evade site censors is to string words. getitass?

[Unregistered]

First, let me say that this post has gotten off topic a little.

Second, I too am a Business/Technology/Computer Teacher. Now it depends what you are actually teaching computer wise, as how much that teacher should know. I can operate computer programs (word, excel, etc.) with aboslutely no problems. I completely understand the programs and how to "operate" and "run" a computer.

My disagreement with the original poster is that a basic business/technology teacher is NOT TAUGHT what I call the "insides" of a computer. We do not know how "fix" computers or "terms" that may be associated with fixing, programming, or the technical aspects of a computer. There are seperate degrees for that, which I think you are best suited for.

I think it is unfair of you to put down a teacher that you have not seen teach or know what her degree is in. I think you need to recheck your teaching degrees....

[Unregistered]

From the original:

I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face.

I think the teacher should know what that means.

[Unregistered]

In my experience, the less experienced the teacher, the more she wants to control everyone else's classroom.

[remthewanderer]

just when i thought this thread was going to fall off the front page...

#102 i agree with you, thank you!

#101 my original post I used this teacher as an example of a flaw in the way we teach our children. In the next several years high school students will be required to pass a computer competency exam before they can graduate. Do you want the teacher in my example teaching your child about computers?

I am not asking for computer technology teachers to be able to take apart or put together a computer. What I am asking for is a basic understanding of the machine that we are sitting in front of. This needs to be on both the software and hardware front. Basic troubleshooting should take into consideration both software and hardware. this would include knowing where all the wires should go. i am digressing from my main point but I believe that throughout this thread I have made some valid points that adhere to my main point.

#103 is your comment in reference to me? I am a male so I am unsure if you are referring to me. If you are I am going to have to disagree with you. While this may hold true at the elementary levels of teaching where every teacher teaches multiple subjects, at the high school level why would a math teacher want to control the way a history teacher teaches?

[Unregistered]

In my experience, the less experienced the teacher, the more she wants to control everyone else's classroom.

In my experience, the more experienced the teacher, the less they are willing to listen to anyone... about anything.

[Unregistered]

In my experience, the more experienced the teacher, the less they are willing to listen to anyone... about anything.
Especially not interested in the opinions of self-centered little horn-tooters who've yet to learn the basic rule of communication.

[Anonymous]

You know what's hilarious? There's an argument going on between two people going by the title "Unregistered". You're even quoting each other. "Well, Unregistered, according to what you said here..." "Oh yeah, Unregistered? Is that what you think? Blah blah blah..."

[Unregistered, defiantly]

That's because people read each other's words. Maybe you'd like it color coded? Better go back to tv, this is too complex for you.

[jayjanda]

- My goodness! I just now joined this forum and this is the very first thread I have read (came up in a search for "desktop publishing" threads).

This is hardly what I had in mind, but the sheer irony in this thread motivated me to post. The thread was started by a person with a life that leaves him so lacking, that a disappointing encounter with a computer "teacher" (probably just an aide) sets him on course to write and publish a short, whiny essay trashing teacher(s).

No problem with that. Happens all the time, on and off the web. The irony comes from the number of teachers eagerly lining up to engage in ridiculously petty parsing and sniping, the end result being this multi-page thread which goes further to make more teachers look foolish than the original poster himself intended.

It's ironic, humorous, and sad.

Now you can jump on me.

[Unregistered]

The thread was started by a person with a life that leaves him so lacking...

Speaking of petty sniping, what would motivate you to characterize the original poster in such personal terms?

And you wonder why these threads go off kilter?

[Unregistered]

The bottom line is that anyone that is not qualified to teach should not be qualified to make judgements of another. Until you are experienced in what you pass judgement on then you have no business, nor right to pass your judgement. ...This coming from an experienced teacher...

[Unregistered]

I have to agree. I am a brand new 55 year old technology teacher, as in woodworking, welding, small engines, and etc. I had accepted an insurance salesman position the day before I accepted a teaching profession. The insurance position would have potentially paid three times what I will make as a teacher, but I have seen what some teachers teach and how they teach. I feel that many technology programs have been killed by teachers that are only interested in teaching instead of helping a student learn. I observed teachers in wood and metal working that didn't know how to properly set up and adjust the machines they used. They insisted on using dull tools for fear that a student would cut themselves, when the opposite is true. I am rusty on my welding skills so I am taking a night class on welding that is taught by a professional welder at a community college an hour and half away so I can stay ahead of my students and teach them to the best of my ability. I could have gone to a slightly closed community college where a high school welding teacher is teaching, but for me, I feel that if I would want to learn how to be a millionaire, I would want to learn from a millionaire, not someone that makes a small salary teaching how to be a millionaire. If they can't make millions, how can they really teach it and why aren't THEY making the millions?

[Unregistered]

Just because a person has the degree to say they can teach does not necessarily mean they CAN teach..................

From a new (mature and industry trained) teacher, who also taught my college professors a few things about the subject they were teaching........... Just because you learn from a book does not mean you know, real life exerience is a far more accurate teacher......

[Unregistered]

The bottom line is that anyone that is not qualified to teach should not be qualified to make judgements of another.

Even non-teachers can sometimes distinguish a bad teacher from a good one, just like a football fan can sometimes distinguish a bad football player from a superstar.

[Unregistered]

Classroom management, rapport with the students, knowledge of different learning styles and a genuine passion for children are all much more important than content knowledge. I would not want a teacher who knows everything about the content but has none of the aforementioned qualities. I am confident in my teaching ability, my ability to reach children and my ability to motivate them. I know nothing about Physics, but I would bet that I could do a better job of teaching Physics than some Physics teachers. Making a judgement about the teacher not knowing what one or two terms is in my mind absolutely ridiculous. I am a History teacher and there are plenty of things that happened in history that I have no clue about. That does not make me a bad teacher and anyone who says otherwise is welcome to come to my classroom and see the inspired learning that takes place in my classroom everyday. I bet that this computer teacher that has been slammed on here can say the same.

[Unregistered]

Teachers need both content knowledge and skill. Without content knowledge, teachers can wind up teaching incorrect information. Of what use is that?

By the way, I wouldn't bet on your ability to teach physics without understanding the subject.

[Unregistered]

I don't think many of you are getting the original post. Don't defend all teachers just because you are one. Whether or not you have been in someone's classroom is irrelevant. A person could be the best teacher in the world, but they have to KNOW THEIR SUBJECT. You can't teach what you don't know. I've known parents (and their children) who visit the library to get verification of facts when teachers teach the wrong things or mark test answers incorrectly. I've heard teachers say (regularly from the same teachers, not slips of the tongue): liberry instead of library, valentimes instead of valetines, etc. Yes, the ability to teach is very important and a teacher may have an excellent classroom presence, but I don't think it is snippy to require a teacher to have at least a basic knowledge of their subject and to be literate!

[Unregistered]

I tell my students that if I can teach them enough so that they have the background and foundation to be able to have a choice in further educational studies - that they have the knowledge to succeed in what they really like to do - then I have done my job. I try to get them to realize that to work in a field they enjoy is a true gold mine.

A teacher

[Unregistered]

Your quote..."However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone."
Teaching is mentally exhausting. If you think it is 7-3 and summers off, you are highly mistaken. School ended, one week off then college for 5 weeks. Then one week of training to update my area of technology. Last week I was in school all week getting my class ready. I am doing icebreakers and lesson plans to start the year. I have had 10 days off this summer and guess what? I LOVE teaching!
Incompetent? Do you think the students come in your class with prior knowledge? I teach high school and students can't read a ruler, sometimes. That is ok, I don't think they are incompetent, they just do not know!
Please think of another field.

[Unregistered]

I am a middle aged woman, mother of four, former system manager and computer programmer. I understand the terminology and the hardware configuration. I have a degree in Math (gpa 3.6). I have been a full-time high school math teacher for two years now and let me tell you this: You are in for a major reality check!

Content knowledge does matter but what matters more is your classroom management skills. It doesn't matter diddly-squat that you know where the USB port is located on each station or that use know the difference between LAN or WAN when kids are talking too loud, throwing paper balls around, coming up to you in droves asking several questions at once, or locking up their systems (usually intentionally) and you're just trying to get them all focused, booted up and on task.

Give the teacher a break, we teachers are often assigned classes sometimes after the school year has started, that we have had no time to prepare for but we bring what skills we have to the classroom and just try to do what we have to do. Classroom management skills and good lesson planning matter a whole lot more than knowing what all those holes on the work stations are for!

The teacher you have referred to is probably doing a good enough job from the students' perspective. The simple truth is your experience and knowledge are less relevant to the classroom environment than you realize. Sometimes good enough is simply good enough.

Good luck.

A Secondary Math teacher at Low-Income High School

[Unregistered]

Content knowledge is critical for teaching any subject. If this lady had no clue as to what a USB is, then she had no business teaching tech. The kids would probably teach her more. However, I also agree that without knowing all the facts, as she may have been "placed" there without training, then conclusions should not be final. We all do a great deal of good, probably more than we know. Don't let one dysfunctional, disenchanted guy bother you. Have a geat year everyone!

[Unregistered]

Mr. Computer Guy,

Mr. Computer Guy,

There is a lot you have to know before you stand in front of 34 x 5 students in a classroom on a daily bases. This is definitely not managing a database in an office.

I am a teacher and honestly, I don't think that teacher you described should be teaching computers. However, I am quite certain that this is not the teacher's license area. The teacher is probably filling in for a shortage in that school.

What you should have done is to investigate and then go on an attack the DOE for not providing enough training and resources for teacher in schools.

You comments and title were definitely offensive to all teachers.

[A Student (gasp!)]

I know nothing about Physics, but I would bet that I could do a better job of teaching Physics than some Physics teachers.
I had a physics teacher, while in high school, who did not know her subject. She would have to go home and "ask her husband" whenever she got any sort of question she didn't write herself. It meant that she looked stupid to us (the students) and so we never took her seriously, or even really listened to her at all. We would have been better off with just the book...at least it knew the right answers. I guess my main point is that, without the ability to answer relevant (and fairly basic) questions on the subject, all of the vaunted "classroom managment skills" in the world can't compensate.

[Unregistered]

By the way original poster, it's "amazed by" not "amazed at". ;)

[Unregistered]

Rem and everyone, first, I don't claim to be an experienced teacher. I am just starting my second year. It has been the most frustrating, aggravating, and annoying job of my life but also the most rewarding, fullfilling job. I have an MIS minor, I worked for over 10 years in business, usually teaching others about their computers. So REM, I have been there.

1- Please do not judge the teacher based on your interpretation of a confused look. There are a number of possible reasons. a) Sometimes we techies have an annoying tendency to talk our own talk and not put things into plain english. We often don't realize it because we talk our own lingo so well we adopt it like regular English. You may have been, without knowing or meaning too, talking over her head. b) Maybe she was stressed out and having a bad day. She may have had on her mind a student she must try to teach computer applications to in high school and cannot read out of elementary. She may be worried about a teen age student not eating and growing thinner and thinner. Maybe she is having a personal crisis at the moment and your information is not really registering. Maybe she was up for a long time the night before and is exhausted. c) Maybe she felt you were talking down to her. You seemed to know alot about this woman and in a very quick hurry made assumptions. Unconciously you may have begun to assume she knew nothing and talked down to her and irritated her to the max. I say c to warn you. Be very careful about being deceived by appearences and "confused looks". I have had students that I thought just weren't getting it and then when I asked them to self evaluate, they listed everything I had been trying to teach them and more. I was floored. It taught me again the old adage of "Beauty and the Beast" about 'not being deceived by appearences because beauty is found within, ie: knowledge is found within".

Second - really make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. Having a passion for technology is great. I commend you. I love it too. I too try to transfer my passion but there is an even greater passion. It is a passion I have seen lacking alot, it is a deep abiding passion for the kids. If you don't, I can guarentee you the first time that one of them tells you off, all the passion for technology in the world isn't going to be diddly squat. The thing that will save you from getting in the dirt with them is the second passion. The second passion is what will keep you hanging on when there are two weeks of school left and the kids stop trying to learn, already counting days.

Third - I wish you well. If your love of technology is dying because of dealing with idiots, you may find yourself disillusioned fast with a classroom. You will get the wonder students but you will then get the students for whom just remembering to show up to your class on time with something to write with and write on is a major accomplishment. You will get the senior who has slugged all high school and is now thumped in your class to get the credit he needs to graduate. (Sorry REM but a sad reality is that business and tech are the dumping grounds for students needing a sure credit or two.)

Fourth - If you do try it, you will have the best job in the world. It will be work. Alot of work. You will rack your brains about how to modify and reach everyone. You will feel you are failing on all fronts and then the kids will surprise you. It may just be a little victory or a major one but they let you know there really is something going on.

Techie turned teacher.

[Unregistered]

Well,

I believe to be a good teacher you must know more then you have to teach, because you never know what type of questions people can come with! and it's not easy to say I don't know to a student... it lowers down your reputation. But regarding that lady.. how old was she? nad if she is teaching computers to kids there is no need to tell them certain terminology.

And if you wanna become a teacher you should have took a B.Ed course, not pretending that because you know the terminology of things you are capable of teaching! it needs more than knowledge to teach!

[Unregistered]

I teach theatre. I have 20+ years professional experience, advanced degree, cert, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. I'm good at it and I enjoy it. To me, my subject matter is no great mystery. My friend up the hall teaches calc. He's one of the best teachers I know. His subject matter is rocket science as far as I am concerned.
When I first entered the public system, I was asked to supply the principal with a list of stuff that I was comfortable teaching (according to my contract, I can be asked to teach one class outside of my subject area- but not too far beyond). Happy to. Anything in the humanities- Lit (mostly western), History (again, mostly western), Philosophy, Basic Art History. You get the idea. I'm a humanities guy.
My schedule arrived a few days prior to the first day of classes.
Intro to Business? What the hell? I don't know ANYTHING about business. Nor do I care to. Not only am I clueless in business, I'd need to seriously adjust my attitude as I happen to believe the corporate world is synonymous with evil. My system merely said "do it".
So I am teaching intro to business. I'm not lying to my students. "We're all learning this together", says I. I've been teaching for 12 years. I know the drill.

My point- in a system which seems designed to fail, you see fit to jam on the teacher. What ever for? She's probably doing the best she can. She probably goes home every day in a panic because she knows her students know more about the subject than she does. She probably scrambles to keep up. Her resources are probably crap. If she's in a city, she probably doesn't even have text books, let alone working computers (like my school).
Stupid teacher? C'mon. Everyone wants to bash the teacher and it is simply because it is the hip thing to do. Well, not so much hip as ignorant, really. Don't believe everything Rod Paige told you. Armstrong Williams has about as much of an idea of what a teacher does as I do about calculus. Your Governor? Senators? The Federal Gov't? Hell, they're all to busy politicizing the issue to actually know what the real problems with education are. They specialize in making damned sure everyone knows WHO THE BAD PEOPLE in education are.
Lemme tell ya- The teacher is the one person who is LEAST to blame for the problems. They are the people being told to jump higher every year (I think we're calling it "accountability" now) and every year, more roadblocks are being chucked in their path. But they keep going to school every day IN SPITE of that, because they are the only people who seem to know exactly what the stakes are. They are the folks who get bashed for doing what every other American is expected to do- ask for decent wages so they can not only provide for their families, but turn around and chuck it RIGHT back into their class rooms (and please don't think they are so delusional as to expect compensation). Now, do you expect a decent wage? Do you like raises for good work? Do you like bennies?

Yeah. So do we. But we get slammed on a national level for being such cold heartless and greedy crybabies for it.

Man, until you pick up the chalk, lay off. No one does this for the money or the summers off (and if they do, they don't last). Instead of complaining, do something. Help her. Give her information and resources. Vote with education in mind. Let people know the system is not supporting the professionals that have been hired to do the job.

So you are a tech professional. That's good. If you're an A+ Certified Technician with perhaps an Apple Tech cert as dressing on the cake, should your employer demand that 20% of your job will also be front end coding for some database app? Should you, as a Cold Fusion expert be told that you'll be spending 20% of your time repairing laptops? How 'bout the Unix geek sysadmin being asked to -ulp- work one on one with users who need to know how to perform a mail merge? Sure, you could be asked to do the work outside of your expertise, but would that really be the most efficient use of your skills?

Hey, now. Sorry. I didn't mean for this to be a tirade. Honestly.
I have 152 student evals to finish before tuesday. I have a grant to write, a fundraiser performance to produce, two student productions to rehearse, homework to grade, 18 monologues to choose and assign, 2 quizes to write, a full series of 9-12 benchmarks to re-write and, of course, some supplemental materials for this Intro to Business class (which is how I stumbled on this site to begin with).
I better get my lazy butt back to it.

[seasonofthesoul]

Well, first of all I understand your frustration at the thought someone is teaching something they know little or nothing about. However, if you've never taught you wouldn't realize that on occassion, just from the overall stress and exhaustion that teaching causes, we may show signs of being completely brain dead when asked a question, when in fact we know the subject forwards and backwards. You say her expression led you to assume she knew nothing about what you were saying, but you didn't ask her if she knew what those things were did you? Maybe she's tired and doesn't need to be questioned by an "outsider". We get enough of that from parents, administrator's etc. It's exhausting, and never boring like your job. We would occassionally appreciate boring.

[charityk]

REM, I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR POST. COME ON NOW WE ALL WENT TO SCHOOL AT SOME TIME IN OUR LIFE AND HAVE MET SOME TEACHERS THAT SEEMED AND MIGHT HAVE EVEN SAID THEY ARENT GETTING PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS OR THAT. I HAVE MYSELF HAD A COUPLE TEACHERS WHEN I ASKED FOR HELP TELL ME HE DIDNT HAVE THE TIME, NOW I HAVE TOOK SOME LEARNING CLASSES IN THE SAME SCHOOL YEARS LATER WITH LESS PEOPLE ATTENDING AND DIFFERENT TEACHER TEACHING THE CLASS AND I HAVE HAD TONS OF ONE ON ONE HELP AND WAS NEVER TOLD SORRY I DONT HAVE TIME. MY KIDS WILL SOON BE GOING TO THIS SAME SCHOOL AND I HOPE THEY DONT HEAR SORRY MY DEAR OR SORRY SON I DONT HAVE THE TIME TO HELP OR SORRY I DONT GET PAID ENOUGH OR HAVE THE TIME!!I BELIEVE ITS WHO THE TEACHER IS NOT ALL TEACHERS ARE LIKE THAT BUT THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE WHO JUST DONT THINK THEY ARE GETTING PAID ENOUGH FOR WHAT THEY DO AND IM SORRY IF THIS BOTHERS ANYONE BUT ITS THE TRUTH.:mad: :eek: :confused:

[Unregistered]

Oh...another..."I went to school for something else but teaching seems easy enough to do, so I'll go get my quickie teaching degree and become a teacher and better the lives of the children that enter my classroom."

I've heard this song and dance before. So this guy knows his way around a computer, does he have classroom management skills? Is he ready to have a classroom of high school students who could care less about his vast knowledge of USBs and Viruses? Given the chance I would love to watch Mr. Science in a high school class, half of which you know will have IEPs and Behavior plans...and..of course..parol officers.

I agree with other posters, until you've done the job and have walked more then a day in our shoes, pick a difference occupation.

[Unregistered]

I am going to orientation to substitute teach in a few days. I am not really sure what I am in for when I start subing, but I would appreciate any tips to keep the students under control, without seeming controling. Seems like a tough balance. I am in school to become a full time teacher and this experience could really make or break my career, so I would love to have it go really well.

[Unregistered]

I have been substitute teaching for about a year now and have learned so much. I substitute mainly high school and at first I was really really discouraged. Just hang in and don't give up. I am young and small so the first things students ask me is how old I am. They will try to size you up as soon as they walk in the door. Be strong and DO NOT LET THEM WALK ALL OVER YOU. As for myself I have to be in control, I am not their regular teacher so they think they can do what ever they want. If you keep teaching at the same school students will get to know you and it gets easier. Don't give up to fast. What grades are you going to do?

[Unregistered]

Oh my goodness!!

USB,SUB,BSU,UBS,BUS,SBU OR LD,ELL,ADD,ADHD,EH,EMH,PTO,PTC ok student

starting with LD to ok what do they stand for,hint:LD Lincolin/Douglass debate deals with speech and ok stands for Oklahoma

[Unregistered]

It doesn't matter which teaching method a teacher uses, a certain amount of content knowledge is required to teach a subject. I don't see how anyone can disagree.


That is absolutely true and I am compassionate with the original author of this thread.

[Unregistered]

We no longer have typewriters in the classrooms and it's likely that districts didn't provide teachers with adequate training as technology advanced. I do believe that teachers should be life long learners and therefore seek - search the information on their own if necessary. However, to arrive at the conclusion of this individual being incompetent without truly knowing much of the facts is extremely critical and judgemental. I do agree that teachers are the experts in their content areas (especially in high school-content based teachers) however, this doesn't imply they know it all.

If the computer teacher is teaching directly out of the textbook - he/she will eventually be familiar with the vocab and able to elaborate with experts in the field of technology.

[Unregistered]

Have you ever been in a classroom facing 30 students who do not want to be there? I doubt it. Because if you had, then you will not be making such stupid an unwarranted comments about any teacher. Have you forgotten that it was because of theacher that you were able to obtaint the qualification that you now possess. Come on man, stop cursing the bridges that you cross.

[Unregistered]

Have you ever been in a classroom facing 30 students who do not want to be there? I doubt it.

What does that have to do with this issue? Teachers either need to know their lesson content, or do not.

[Unregistered]

Are you sure the "teacher" in question wasn't a substitute? Sounds to me like someone who was asked to cover a class because the regular teacher was either sick or in a meeting. Public school teachers are better prepared than that. I am a teacher and I resent the fact that you seem to think we are all dummies......in math I am.......in MY field I am not!

[Unregistered]

I agree, the teacher could have been a sub or even a first year teacher. No one knows the circumstances. I do believe that many of us are too judgemental. Maybe the teacher just had other things on her mind and was not giving you her complete attention. We will never know. To knock teachers by having a "one time" experience with one is unjustified. I am a High School science teacher. some of my students really should have been held back in middle school because they are not capable of handeling high school work. What should I do blame the teacher that had the student last. Of course not. I do not know what the circumstances were. I work with the children on an individualized basis the best that I can. I understand why some of you bring up the 30 in a class. I have 34 in each of my classes and it is hard to give that attention to those who need it. This is why most of us take time away from our lunch and prep periods to try to help the children. The problem is not with the teaher or teachers it is with the system in which they have to work.

[Unregistered]

**************** all the teacher if you dont understand why i am saying it **************** you to

[Unregistered]

Sub Are The Leasyfuchers Ever

[Unregistered]

I am a teacher and while I agree with the expectation that teachers should teach in their specialization, sometimes this isn't going to be the case. There is a shortage of teachers and sometimes teachers are placed in courses in which they shouldn't be. Is this right? No, but that's the way the system works. Someone has to teach these classes and if the right people aren't available, do we hire people off the street, or do we give the position to a qualified teacher and have them run the class until a computer teacher is available? I would take the latter. And who is this person to talk anyhow? They have no idea of what kind of computer class the person is teaching and is totally unqualified to make an argument that labels some in the teaching community as "stupid". For someone who wants to be a teacher, you should know enough to research things first before writing.

[Unregistered]

My response to your thread is one of good and bad. I appreciate the fact that you see teaching as something valuable and that you would like to contribute to the teaching professions. However, I hope that you gain an understanding that not all teachers are stupid because of some knowledge they may lack. Sometimes teachers are put into positions where they are forced to teach certain subjects. Instead of school districts looking at a teacher's strengths, they decide to tell them what to teach without giving any additional professional development.

I have seen this in our school system where sometimes they are only worried about where to put teachers instead of looking at how the teacher can fully excel and work with the students. Give this teacher the benefit of doubt. Maybe this teacher had no choice as to what they needed to teach. Sometimes teachers have a wide span involved in their teaching area, but have only focused on certain things.

[Unregistered]

If the teacher is older, then her training might be in teaching business and keyboarding, I have a teacher in my school like this. She has worked very hard to keep up to speed with her changing subject matter. She went from teaching on a typewriter to using computers to needing to teach web design. There have got to be a lot of teachers in that position.

[Unregistered]

I don't know who posted the thing about the sub, but it definately needs to be deleted. Substitute teachers should be given credit for putting up with the antics of the students. It's not their fault for being put into that situation.

[Unregistered]

Is there anyone in the business world who does not know what they are doing?
Sometimes teachers are driven by an outside force, known as a state curriculum and if the elcted powers that be determine that a USB will not be taught then that it what will not be taught.

Teaching is knowing how to read kids as they enter your room, it is developing a relationship 45 minutes at a time, it is about gaining their trust and hoping that something sticks. In the great education world where my class count is 180 is the term USB port really that important?

[Teacher in Utah]

I appreciate what you are saying. I'm a teacher in an elementary school, I am the one in my school people come to with problems and questions. Which is sad, because I would definitely not call myself techno-savy be any means. When compared to others in my school, I am the tech person. Although, there is no additional pay for my efforts to help the others. It takes from my time, I do what I can when I can. I take as many workshops as possible with my limited time (on my own time) to improve in this needed area. I'm currently in grad school to get my Masters in Instructional Technology and Design.

You would think those who have a PHD teaching the courses would be techno-savy, not true. I am amazed at their lack of technology skills. The title of my degree implies knowledge of technology. But it's more 'instruction and assessment and design' based. The missing link in even this top level program is the technology component.

We need educational reform within our system. It's truely not the teachers fault in most cases - the way I see it. I see a lack of internal support and structure in place to support this fast growing technological world. I see a lack of support for the teachers who want to be effecient and knowledable.
Our educational leaders need to step up...

[Unregistered]

Educational reform comes from improving how we teach kids. You don't need a lot of technology for that.

[Unregistered]

Being a good teacher means being yourself and also learning from the best. Find out what some state teachers of the year are doing in their classrooms, and even use materials they've created. Learning from the best couldn't hurt your own teaching, that's for sure. If curious check out http://www.TeachersPayTeachers.com, a website that was featured in this month's Teacher Magazine.

[ge01ee]

To 'unregistered' above - you would be surprised at how many people want to do that...
This past summer, a friend was hired (through an unadvertised vacancy) to teach Photography - a subject he knows nothing about.
My friend wanted to teach Physics. Go figure

[Unregistered]

Sometimes teachers are driven by an outside force, known as a state curriculum

That isn't an outside force, since we are state employees. If you work for the state on a construction project, you follow state rules on how a highway is built. If you work for IBM, you follow their employee manual. And when you work for the state as a teacher, you base your teaching around the state curriculum.

[Unregistered]

I was like you. I spent many years in the business world, then taught non-credit computer classes. (per diem)

I was / still suprised who little computer teachers know. The problem I found that in the past, there was not certification for teaching computers.

Long story short, there is now.
Look into teaching at a technical highschool.

I now teach at a technical high school in CT. I had to take some classes to get my certification. But I did.
And I love my job!

[Unregistered]

Dude your title ****************s your story ****************s come on get a live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just joking but still learn something.

[Margaret Johnson]

Even I, an Engish teacher, know what a USB port, cable--even flash drive (!) are. I also know that some of us need more training on how to use our computers for the tasks the administration wants us to accomplish. Our students give us more assistance than do our tech advisors.

[Unregistered]

yes; you would think that a computer teacher would know about a (USB) but hey obviously this teacher didn't know. I can see how that would be a concern. I feel as if some teachers are there just recieving the pay check and I also believe that it is qour jobs as teachers to stay current and up to date on the new things in the world. That goes for technology, math, history, .... whatever the class may be. On the other hand, I do not think it really means this teacher should not teach. I think it just means they need to continue training so they can stay current in the fast pace world of computers.

[Curious]

I am a teacher and while I agree with the expectation that teachers should teach in their specialization, sometimes this isn't going to be the case. There is a shortage of teachers and sometimes teachers are placed in courses in which they shouldn't be. Is this right? No, but that's the way the system works. Someone has to teach these classes and if the right people aren't available, do we hire people off the street, or do we give the position to a qualified teacher and have them run the class until a computer teacher is available? I would take the latter. And who is this person to talk anyhow? They have no idea of what kind of computer class the person is teaching and is totally unqualified to make an argument that labels some in the teaching community as "stupid". For someone who wants to be a teacher, you should know enough to research things first before writing.

There is no teacher shortage. There has never been a teacher shortage. There never will be a teacher shortage.

For every ten teachers that pay their fee and get their degree, there is only one slot open. That means there is a teacher GLUT.

The average teacher got SAT scores at the bottom 12% in the country. That means their IQ is close to MENTALLY RETARDED.

Administrators are even lower -- much lower.

And now they hand administrators PhDs. That's the highest academic degree for someone who should not have graduated the eighth grade.

There is MASSIVE research showing that teachers are stupid. Check Thomas Sowell for starters.

Stupid teachers love to say things like "do your research" when they haven't the foggiest idea what the research is.

The worst thing about stupid teachers is that when an able or even a genius teacher gets a job teaching (a very rare thing indeed), all the students think that he too, is stupid, like all the rest.

And of course all the stupid teachers who control our schools waste no time in spreading nasty gossip about the good teacher to get him fired -- because the genius teacher makes all the stupid teachers look stupid.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

digging this up from a while back, huh?

[Mr. H]

While there may not be a "teacher shortage", there may be a "highly qualified teacher shortage", I believe the first post indicates this trend. The whole, "there will never be a teacher shortage" comment is a little hard to tell. here in California all of the baby boomers, which comprise about 40% of teachers here are going into retirement in the next few years. Teaching is like any other high-demand, if there aren't highly qualified people to take the openings, someone who is less qualified will slip in and possibly get tenured thus dooming students to a lesser quality of teacher for some undetermined time-frame. here in my hometown, there is this lady who has been 'teaching' for over 60 YEARS. She went into retirement for a year and came back after her mother died because she "didn't have anything better to do". Her students learn NOTHING. I've had to tutor them when they get to college. These are students who've had 4 years of French but couldn't pass French 1 in college. Long story short, there will always be less qualified teachers out there (many of whom somehow got tenured). I have no idea what to do about it... I think maybe the lines of communication as to what the teaching standards are need to be addressed with not just the teaching community, but with the parents, school boards and students. It should be clear what these kids are expected to learn in all subject matters... I fear that most of the public and many in the teaching community either don't know or don't care to know.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

While there may not be a "teacher shortage", there may be a "highly qualified teacher shortage", I believe the first post indicates this trend. The whole, "there will never be a teacher shortage" comment is a little hard to tell. here in California all of the baby boomers, which comprise about 40% of teachers here are going into retirement in the next few years. Teaching is like any other high-demand, if there aren't highly qualified people to take the openings, someone who is less qualified will slip in and possibly get tenured thus dooming students to a lesser quality of teacher for some undetermined time-frame. here in my hometown, there is this lady who has been 'teaching' for over 60 YEARS. She went into retirement for a year and came back after her mother died because she "didn't have anything better to do". Her students learn NOTHING. I've had to tutor them when they get to college. These are students who've had 4 years of French but couldn't pass French 1 in college. Long story short, there will always be less qualified teachers out there (many of whom somehow got tenured). I have no idea what to do about it... I think maybe the lines of communication as to what the teaching standards are need to be addressed with not just the teaching community, but with the parents, school boards and students. It should be clear what these kids are expected to learn in all subject matters... I fear that most of the public and many in the teaching community either don't know or don't care to know.


I'm not concerned. I am in my field, highly qualified, and tenured. Let the admin figure out finding others for math and science.

[Mr. H]

Way to be a team player, man. :D I get what you mean, though. I've read other posts you've made about being the best qualified person for the job and you're correct. The problem is that there are so many teachers who were just "good enough" to fill the position. When a more qualified candidate comes along and sees the less qualified teacher in a position they get jealous. I understand. It's exactly how I felt about the French teacher at the "Other High School" here in town. Whatever, I have to deal with it.:rolleyes:

[Unregistered]

I am in total agreement with you. Teachers, as a generic whole, (and with the required exceptions to the rule) are some of the dumbest, lack-of-common-sense individuals with whom I have ever had the misfortune work. Yes, I am a teacher! And for the past 25 years I have witnessed these same teachers to whom you refer--the "I'm just making it to retirement" crowd who collect their pay and go play--do far more harm to a student than good. When the requirements to become a teacher are set so low, what do we expect, however? When it's so easy to get teaching credentials, we are setting up a system of failure. And teacher pay--remember, you get what you pay for! I work and teach and work more--undoing what bad "teachers" have instilled in students. It's a neverending cycle. Yet I continue to teach. Why? I love it! I love seeing the lightbulbs go on over a student's head when he "gets" it. My dad, a former teacher and superintendent, constantly reminds me that "if your butt's tired at the end of the day, you haven't taught them a thing except that you get paid to babysit. So get up and walk that classroom!" He's right.

[Unregistered]

I am a 15 yr. old student currently in grade 10 and i don't take classes in IPT or computers. I know what a USB external hard drive is. I even know what spyware is! (oh my god) I knew what that meant back in good ol' grade 7. Now, if a teacher is trying to teach something about computers and doesnt know even the most basic things about computers, then she is NOT QUALIFIED! Its as simple as that.

If she doesnt know about computers, she shouldn't be taking the job of someone who does and she shouldn't be teaching about them.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

I am a 15 yr. old student currently in grade 10 and i don't take classes in IPT or computers. I know what a USB external hard drive is. I even know what spyware is! (oh my god) I knew what that meant back in good ol' grade 7. Now, if a teacher is trying to teach something about computers and doesnt know even the most basic things about computers, then she is NOT QUALIFIED! Its as simple as that.

If she doesnt know about computers, she shouldn't be taking the job of someone who does and she shouldn't be teaching about them.

not being qualified does not mean that you aren't the best qualified. Now while you wrap your 15 y.o. mind around that, look at it this way...

shortages in teachers doesn't mean their aren't enough teachers, it means their may be too many PE teachers and not enough computer teachers. So what's the only choice? Put an extra PE teacher in that open computer spot. I'd rather have someone out of field than to not have anyone at all. The only other option is what, to hire you? Or they could drop the class and make you take another real class.

ahh, the poor youth of the nation, so ignorant to how the real world works. Must be nice to go through life with their eyes closed, thinking the world revolves around them.

[Unregistered]

As a secondary school teacher myself, I applaud nad salute your honesty. You are 100% correct!!! DON'T GO TEACHING WHAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!!!!!! If you aer in doubt, that is why you have books called computers for dummies.

I am a teacher who educates through facilitating my OWN knowledge before I venture to pass it on. So, to those of you who are easily offended, THE TRUTH shall set you free.

Students are what we make them. Ig we are not devoted body, mind and soul, we are not only selling "our" students short, but we are so living in the bow.

Take a bow, Sir. I have your back.

A True Teacher

[Unregistered]

Technology-old timeer needs to grasp reality by the horns and deeply inhale the aroma of life.

Simply put, Would you jump into a large body of water because your friends tell you that you can't swim? Maybe you would, but if I did not know how to swim I would first learn.

So, stop trying to insult the 15 year old, it's not becoming of adults. And I believed you called yourself a teacher? I can see why there are shortages. No one wants to be like you.

Get Real
A True Teacher

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

no clue how life really works do you?

Just another 'teacher' who thinks that we aren't supposed to say a student has a stupid idea when it is because it might hurt their ego. :rolleyes: Kids need a dose of reality, and if you won't, I will definately step up and tell them "you better begin to rethink your opinion since you are basing it based on very limited information" and not say "Good opinion" when it really isn't

[A True Teacher]

You know what? That Computer guy was definitely right! Teachers are definitely stupid, and so don't have a clue.

What do you get from being so arogant and pompous and just plain E-V-I-L?

I know what he is talking about. I have had teachers just like you, who did nothing better than put me down, nad whenever I succeeded they were so totally amazed at my passess. Know what I do whenever I see them? Ignore the hell out of them. And they feel bad in the end, because I'm the one they have to come to. If not me, I end up teaching their kids.. And you know what? Their kids can't stop talking about how much of a wonderful teacher I am.

See, Mr. Chocolate, I teach by example, not because I think that the kids are spoilt, rude, untrained, or just plain irritable. My task is to impart. Simply put, if you don't want what I have to offer GET OUT. If you do, fine, let's make a partnership of it.

I have taught kids who are now getting their Masters in Education, getting their RN, who have degrees in IT.

I am a realist. But there are times when we as adults need to get down off of our self-righteous horse and get down to the level of our students. That is being real.

You are so out of it. Forgive me for attacking you as I don't know you, but I can imagine what your students must be feeling.

Whatever has the world done to you? :confused:

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

negative - I do not 'get down to their level' I insist they raise up to the standards of the class that I demand.

Wow, you ignore old teachers, you show them, I bet they must feel really bad....or, they don't even realize what you are doing and go about their life that you are an insignificant part in.

[Unregistered]

Did you ever consider that you could have taught those people at work without being an official "teacher"? You had knowledge, they lacked it, you got frustrated and gave up....those people needed that information to do their job better...what makes you think you can get teenagers to realize the information you are trying to teach them is necessary if you can't get adults to learn the information who are being paid????
Teaching is a passion, I agree, but without patience and maturity you will reach burn out too quickly...you could have taught people you did work with so much more than computers..you modeled the very behavior that made you so angry with them...they quit and so did you....

So learn from your mistake and move forward apply it to your teaching and learn to appreciate others instead of being so judgemental about people based on their ability to pick up quickly on something you have a gift for.

Good Luck.

[Unregistered]

I love teaching and have devoted over 20 years of my life to helping young people grow. I care deeply about my students. I am NOT here for the money.

It may come as a surprise, but we often must teach subjects we are not experts in. Especially in small schools, a Social Studies teacher must sometimes teach a Health or Math class.

I had to teach Technology, even though my expertise is in another subject. I am not stupid, but I might have seemed a bit ignorant for a while.

I worked 14 hours a day (no kidding) learning the software, researching and writing my own curriculum from scratch, since there are no text books. I learned a lot and so did my students. My classes improved quickly and I now have many external hard drives, including USB and Firewire. I set up my classroom's network and can troubleshoot most problems.

Because Technology is such a new subject, and not yet considered a mainstream subject, there are very few colleges that even offer a certification in it.

I wouldn't doubt that if you want to teach about computers, AND you want to get and keep a job, you'll probably have to learn to teach something you're not an expert in, as well.

[Unregistered]

I teach English, but am also certified to teach Business Education. Let it be known that many Business Education courses focus upon how to utilize Microsoft Office products such as Excel, Powerpoint, Access, etc. These programs may even incorporate Keyboarding, Business Law units, as well as Office Procedures. I have seldom seen where these business courses implement tasks that rest within the Information Technology department. If a teacher of "business" has a curriculum that focuses upon how to successfully provide a student with the tools and ergonomics, then knowing what an external hard drive or USB port is should not be an issue. First, the students would learn those terms from a class in Information Technology, Networking, or a general Computer Technology course; not a Computer Skills course. My experiences has revealed that the business world does not allow office employees to install/unistall programs, move, or even unplug computers. It is the duty within the Information Technology department. The same applies for the district that I work. Furthermore, how many times have you witnessed a bank teller, receptionist within a doctor's office, an accountant, or even a principal open up the shell to a computer and start troubleshooting? It doesn't
happen. Work orders are written and the Information Technology departments resolve the matter. The business teacher you mentioned likely was responsible for teaching the computer SOFTWARE (not shouting, but emphasizing) skills, not the physical parts (tower, CPU, motherboard, RAM, internal/External drive) of the computer since that is what a student in the "business" field will be performing after graduation.

[Unregistered]

To the poster above.

I hope you realize that an USB External Hard Drive is in no way equivalent to opening up a computer and starts troubleshooting. Not knowing what one is while still teaching anything computers-related is equivalent to teaching English yet not knowing how to identify comma splices. Knowledge on these basic computer terminology are becoming general knowledge even amongst youths of today. Of course, it is understandable if the teacher teaches something outside a computer classroom, and only uses a computer every once in a while to type out something or update markbook, but we are talking about a teacher that teaches computer-related knowledge. A teacher who lacks basic, elementary knowledge in his or her field, regardless of what you might argue, is a problem.

Also, don't you think that the students' general computer skills is more important than what they do in their workplaces? They don't learn just for their future jobs, they learn for their everyday living. When a student signs up for a business and computer course, they're not thinking about what's required in their jobs years down the road, they just want to learn more useful things about computers. Knowing how to use computers well provides such an advantage on everything... The ability to type above 80WPM provides better synchronization between typing and thinking and thus makes writing anything extremely easy. Mass calculations can be done in a few seconds in a spreadsheet. Countless resources for research is available on the internet, webpages, radio recordings, e-books, presentation slides, videos... it all depends on how well you know the internet. What would you do if your Powerpoint is too big to be put onto a floppy disk and you don't have a CD burner? Instead of fussing for hours making calls for help, converting the images to a smaller format takes one or two minutes, or you can change the medium of transport and use a usb flash drive (if you have one). Behind on the news? Install a news feed ticker on a good browser like Firefox and you'll be catching up on the news while browsing the internet. Need management for a long-term team project? Ask some computer expert to make you a discussion forum like this one and all communication will be organized and clear. You cannot deny the fact that computer knowledge boosts productivity, and greater personal productivity helps everyday living. Some of the best students I have seen are also very good computer users.

A teacher should not only be knowledgeable in what he or she teaches, but should also be passionate about them. This is what separates bad teachers from good teachers. If you don't care what you do and are just in the job for the salary, then get a different job. If you like teaching but not in your current area, then fight to teach what you love. This isn't just like any other job because a teacher's teaching will affect his or her students. If such an ideal isn't happening, don't blame humanity or realism. If you just put up with problems because "it's real life" then the problems will never go away. If your age has made you less spirited, then it's nothing to be proud of.

Lastly, in elementary computer knowledge software and hardware is inseparable. You can't learn how to use Microsoft Word without knowing what a keyboard is. USB external hard drives may not be that obvious, but Microsoft Word's save function is essential to its use. When you save your document you make a file, and where are files stored in? A lack of knowledge on mediums of storage can be both very limiting and very dangerous. I have seen one student who tried to bring a presentation to class over the internet. She opened up Internet Explorer and typed in the address bar "C:\...something..." She said it worked at home, but clearly, she was not aware that the C:\ directory is local to the specific computer you are using.

[Unregistered]

Let me try to make this easier for you to understand. The business teacher teaches computer skills, business law, office procedures, etc. Other classes are geared towards teaching the physical parts of the computer. He or she is responsible for teaching the standards through required curriculum. Very few students participate in business or keyboarding courses unless they are planning to have a career high school. Many students that are required to take Keyboarding classes do not wish to be there. They either have zero experiences with a computer or merely use it to play games or write blogs. There is no such thing as a perfect teacher who beholds all the knowledge of his or her content area. He or she will at one point or another need to look something up and tell the class, "I don't recall or know the answer, but I will find it for you." That particular teacher was not "stupid" for not knowing what the USB port meant. He or she may need to brush up on the computer terms to help communicate in certain conversations, but it does not affect the job of teaching a business course unless the standards/curriculum includes the teaching of computer systems and/or information technology. A teacher can not go by what is "general knowledge for youths." He or she is given standards and curriculum to teach and could be reprimanded for trying to teach a course in computer systems, instead of computer skills. Do not confuse the two courses...computer skills consists of software functionality (browsers, programs, databases) and computer systems are the physical attributes. Yes, the teacher probably should know what the USB port is for self-knowledge, but as long as it doesn't hinder getting the students proficient in the standards according to the curriculum, then he or she doing exactly what is asked of him or her. Again, a teacher may be reprimanded for teaching or introducing material not written within the curriculum to be taught for a specific course.

[Unregistered]

"Knowledge on these basic computer terminology are becoming general knowledge even amongst youths of today."

Yes, and a course in Computer Systems or Information Technology would reinforce the learning of those terms. However, business courses teach the Computer Skills aspect. You will not be performing diagnostics, troubleshooting, networking, installing/unistalling software, etc. You will be understanding the functionality of spreadsheets, databases, presentations, browsers, etc.

Again, do not confuse the two courses. As for your English teacher analogy... if my engine vehicle is making a terrible clicking noise, then I will take it to an auto mechanic. He or she might know what the transmission's torque converter is, but the content area is the engine. It's the specialty. Should he or she know what the torque converter is? Maybe or maybe not. Most likely it would be the area of someone trained in that content... a transmission specialist.

Two different aspects of the same machine.

[An English teacher]

Now you pretend this is about "a certain amount of content knowledge."

Are you going to make outrageous statements and then refuse to acknowledge you made them?

Do you still stand by your rush to judgement against this teacher you have never met or not?

Wow, I guess you are missing the point yourself. It doesn't matter that this person has not been in a classroom. I am an English teacher, and even I know what a USB port is and even where it is located on my computer. I know what it is used for and use it with my yearbook students. The fact that someone is teaching a computer class without basic computer knowledge is atrocious. How can someone teach computers when they know nothing about computers? Instead of railing on a person who calls it like he sees it, maybe you should be reflecting on how someone without the knowledge needed to teach computers managed to land the job in the first place. Just because someone observed rather than experienced first hand does not mean his comments are irrelevant.

[Unregistered]

I was moved from my 1/2 time position as an art teacher to a 1/2 time position in the tech ed dept. teaching comercial art, desktop publishing, a pseudo film/movie class, and an advanced media class that does all the printing for the school and runs an offset litho press that I have never used before. The standards were switched to art standards at least temporarily.
I have always had a personal interest in various aspects of technology and I do know what a usb port is. It also really helped to be in the art field, but then there was software which in some cases was new to me. I was given a month to figure out this software in my side time, because the 1/2 time position required that I work as a self employed carpenter. I also am the technician for our Macs and peripheals because our school technician doesn't know Mac computers. My first year WOW! The students and I learned together and this year I am even more organized and knowledgable, but it has been a challenge and scarey. There is always more to learn, but if a teacher isn't always learning then ???? Sometimes being a teacher isn't always about what you know, but what you are willing to share or find out in order to help others to have more knowledge. I have empathy for this teacher. This teacher might be happy to learn anything you can give her and it might create more breaks or opportunities for you both as a person and teacher.

[Unregistered]

is a very, very basic computer term that anyone who uses the computer fluently should know.

To the poster of the 3rd and 4th post above (I assume they are the same person by the former's post title; if I am wrong, I apologize.):

Your argument is that as long as a teacher does what the course requirement asks, then it is good enough. Although this is good enough by the codes and standards and will keep the teacher in the job, this is not a good attitude to have, because this is what causes mediocre and below-par teachers to exist, and all teachers should strive to be excellent, just as all people should strive to be excellent in their own fields.

I agree that teachers should have the attitude of "I don't know that... but I can find out for you." Unfortunately, the lack of knowledge in this case is so basic that such an argument is neither appropriate nor fitting. Indeed, there is no ideal teacher who knows all knowledge in the subject (note that I talk about the subject, not the course requirements, and my reason for this is stated in the last paragraph). However, a good teacher should know all basic knowledge in the subject (at least on par with the student norm) and still eager to learn and explain aspects of advanced knowledge when asked. Of course, there are special circumstances where this isn't possible (as there are with anything), but in general, shouldn't this be the way things should be?

Provided that the required material is taught and taught well, if a teacher is reprimanded for offering the students new material, then it is a problem with the policies.

I am personally not a teacher, so perhaps my opinions are not entirely convincing. However, if I ever did become a teacher for a computer course, then I would make sure to at least visit my local computer store every once in a while and get to know the products. Now, you might say that all new teachers start off with that kind of optimism, but gradually lose them as time goes by. I will not deny that in this hypothetical situation this may happen to me, but if it did, then I would not be very proud of myself.

[owenbprince]

The system railroads teachers into teaching subjects they have no training in. This does not make her stupid. She may not even like the job but that is what she was told to teach. We have a stupid system. If the guy is trained as a expert computer teacher he would look stupid if he had to teach sewing to a group of teenage girls as he would not have a clue. We need a system that hires teachers for the area they trained in and they should all be payed 4 times what they get now.

:)

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

in high school, we had a wrestling class done by the wrestling coach

I would LOVE to have a wrestling class now. But I am not certified in PE. The baseball coach could actually run the wrestling class, but tell me, how does the piece of paper that prevents me from teaching a wrestling class say that he is more qualified to teach it than me, the actual coach?

[Unregistered]

so the teacher is stupid because she doesnt respond to your mention of USBs. You wish to teach so I hope you make sure you know about ZPD, spiralling, shaping and so on.

[Unregistered]

I have been part of aschool district for many years and here is my two cents: Original poster--You havea lot to learn my friend. Teachers end up teaching many subjects and it is more important to have classroom management skills than content knowledge because if you cannot control the kids you cannot teach them. Content is important but there is more to excellant teaching than content knowledge. Teachers critical of 1st poster--lighten up, some teachers are incompetent and maybe even stupid but there are also highly motivated, dedicated professionals who make do with limited resources. This is true of any profession and of the federal government. Everybody, Good luck.

[Unregistered]

What about her ability to spell?


dieing vs. dying???????


All teachers have difficult jobs--- if you plan to do well in the complete spectrum of the job duties you will encounter.... you will be humbled by the thrashing you directed towards the "computer teacher".

[Unregistered]

I was just browsing through the internet looking for some new and fresh ideas for some lesson plans and came across this "chat" room. I also am a teacher and I teach at a residential alternative school. I teach science and social studies and newspaper, as an elective. Most of my students come to my school in hand cuffs and attitudes. I am a special education teacher teaching subjects that I do not have any official training in. I have a specialist degree in Cross Catergory which allows me to teach all subjects. To the unhappy man that thought the tech. teacher was totally incompetent , shame on you. You sounded more like a person that was mad and unhappy that you can't find a job than someone who feels if you teach a subject you should know it. Why did you not offer to give her web sites where she might go to learn what she is teaching. With all the new technology that is changing everyday maybe it would have been a nicer thing of you to help her out. I am a begger, a pleader and a stealer of any ideas that will help me make the subjects I teach more interesting to students that today are just going through the motions to get their diploma. Not every teacher out there is a Hillary Swank. Maybe next time you could offer help, I am sure that someday you will need help in something that everyone thought you should know, like changing a tire, maybe.

[Unregistered]

I came to teaching at the age of 48 after 15 years of working for a Fortune 500 company. I'd worked in Marketing, Information Systems, and Financial Accounting. After doing corporate training and purchasing systems equipment I also tired of the boring days. I got my teaching certification and always presented myself as someone who had MORE to offer than the typical teacher applicant...I had ACTUAL business experience. I too found MANY teachers who not only didn't have a clue about working in business, but who tried to teach students about a great BIG world they knew nothing about. Back "in the day" a lot of young women went into teaching because it was considered a good place for women to work. A lot of them should have never been in the classroom and in fact - don't even like kids!
Please consider that this has been my personal experience and is not indicative of all teachers...but I do wish more of my generation (I am 58) had been drawn into teaching for the love of students rather than for the security of a professional position.
Bess in VA

[Unregistered]

Without getting personal....(but teaching is personal!)

Don't we, teachers, feel that there is a basic knowledge base some one should have in order to teach?

What does the ideal teacher possess? Knowledge and a Calling

When I worked Peace Corps in Honduras...a long long time ago, when I was young (ha), I was amazed that the minimum standard for a 5th grade teacher was that he/she had completed the 5th grade. Then I thought, wow, well, they are trying. But in the U.S., if you pay them, they will come! We don't live in an ideal world.

I've heard teachers commenting that they like having summers off...that teaching is family friendly...etc. Those teachers don't come to the field because they LOVE teaching. For them, it is a job. In every field, sadly, people have jobs. No teacher, with a passion for teaching, enters into the field of teaching because of the money.

However, we should demand a minimum knowledge base for every teacher who is to pass/guide knowledge to our youth and the icing on the cake would be that they feel a passion for doing so too, in my humble opinion.

[Unregistered]

This message is for the 1st Poster. I hope my children never have you for their classroom teacher!

[Unregistered]

I can relate to the original poster's frustration. I have a math degree and ended up teaching as an Adjunct math instructor at a community college for 8 years. I also worked for 14 years as a private math tutor - mostly for college level classes, but also for middle school and high school classes. On top of that, I worked for almost 6 years as a health insurance Actuarial Analyst. If you've seen how hard those Actuary exams are and consider that I passed a few of them, you would realize that my math skills are good enough to teach with authority to any high school student.

I am trying to become a high school math teacher and am told that I am not eligible until I get certified to be a teacher. My classroom teaching experience at the college does not "count" since it did not occur in a secondary education setting. The bottom line is that I must go back to school for 2 years to get my teaching certification through the state of Kansas. If it was not for my passion for teaching, I could not imagine undergoing 2 years of school to take a $20,000 pay cut.

In the meanwhile, I have a relative who is a high school math teacher who calls me whenever he needs math help. He says that he has to work hard to stay ahead of his students.

This is just a big slap in my face. I've helped more than 1,500 students with their math over a period of 16 years and I know my material inside-out. I keep hearing about this shortage of math teachers and I WANT to be a math teacher and must jump over some major hurdles to get in the field.

Let's get back to the source of this thread. There are people who are experts at their subject who want to go into teaching, but they must face ridiculous obstacles to get into the classroom.

I even got my hands on practice PRAXIS tests from previous years and passed at a 100% with ease. These tests are like kindergarten problems compared to the actuary exams. I wish my ability to pass them would qualify me to teach.

Here is the bottom line: Something needs to be done to attract professional people to the teaching profession. The current system, in my opinion, is severelly messed up and it's hurting more than just me and other people like me. It's hurting the kids in classrooms across America.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

what you don't understand, is because you are an expert in your subject, that is merely only 1 part of the successful equation it takes to become a good teacher in secondary. You have to go back for the classroom management part of teaching. We had a college professor come to our highschool to teach English. She rattled off just as much creditials as you just did. A doctorate, 20 years teaching at a university, this and that, but when she was put into a 9th grade english class, she fell flat on her face and was told not to come back after Thanksgiving. She would leave crying everyday. She had no clue why the kids were like that, after all, she was 'the most qualified' for the position.

She'd tell a college class "read chapter 4 at home so we can discuss it next class" and the entire class would

She'd tell a high school class the same thing, and 1/30 would. So now, her next day's lesson plans were shot because 29 kids are sitting there like lumps, bored, and when highschoolers get bored, they disrupt.

good thing I know my subject, AND have classroom discipline.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for your reply. You really do make a valid point. When I taught college, the students were paying to take the class and generally choose to be there. I've never had the situation where 1/30 did their homework. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Here's my question. Does it really take 2 years to prepare someone with the subject knowledge to teach in the secondary school setting? This still seems a bit much. I think my state (Kansas) may be particular harsh on the requirements. Thanks.

[skyeridder]

While I do agree that a certain amount of content knowledge is needed...remember that sometimes you find yourself still learning the stuff at the same time the kids are! I'm fairly new to the ed world and my first year I would go home...learn what I needed to teach the kids...work up an activity..teach it, then go home and repeat the process...

Are some teachers lazy and don't do what it takes to know the material..oh of course, like any profession there are those that don't give it half what they should...and this person may very well be that way...but don't judge until you know more facts...ask her if she's just started teaching the class, offer a little friendly help...I mean aren't we all still learning in some capacity or other?

[Jim T]

I have been in the IT Network Engineering field for 26 years. Experienced a very successful and lucretive career. I got caught up with working for MCI/WCOM and when my CEO was caught stealing 19 billion dollars, the company shut their dollars. 70 thousand employees dismissed, millions of dollars in pensions lost lost. But don't let me paint a sad picture here because I also worked for major companies like IBM, Conrail, Ernst & Young, etc.

Now I teach computer technology and network engineering at a high school in Philadelphia. No easy task chief! Kids today come with a ton of baggage.

Make a long story short, teachers deserve higher salaries, administration needs to get along with teachers much better. O' and more more thing! Give IT Corporate America a chance, you will find idiots in any field you enter. Just disregard, stay above them, and move forward. Have Goals!

[Unregistered]

I concur with the original writer about knowing your content area. I started out teaching middle school math and did so for three years. I then moved up to teaching at the high school level, I knew that I would have to refresh and bone up on my high school level math classes. I did so every night before I taught a lesson. I was constantly re-teaching myself and figuring out the best way to teach the lesson so that my students will comprehend. I did so, because it was my JOB and I LOVE to teach. No one was going to try and TRIP me up on anything related to what I was teaching, and this includes my advanced and gifted students. So, you should know what you are teaching before you call yourself trying to teach someone else. That's foolish to think I can impart knowledge on to someone and I don't even know what I am talking about. Have any of you heard about Highly Qualified Teahcer? If not, get to know it. Not only should you be certified in that content area, but also knowledgeable about your content area. Not only should you love teaching, I assume that is why you wanted to be a teacher and not just because you want an easy paying job. This is not easy at all. You need to find another job. For this field is constantly changing and you must have an open mind towards these changes, if they are research-based changes that will positively affect the students. That's all that it boils down to you.

[Minnesota Math]

Maybe this was hit on before, but I couldn't bring myself to read through all that ranting. If you have been in teaching for any length of time, you have witnessed or been a part of staff cuts and/or placements. In order to keep certain programs, teachers are often placed in a situation they are not wholly comfortable with. Is this right? I don't think so, but many times there isn't a viable choice. If you worked in a factory and layoffs forced you to transfer to a different department, would you go? If your family depended on your salary, you bet you would!

[Unregistered]

I have experience in both computers and teaching and I have one real question for you.You said that this teacher teaches basic computer skills. Just what exactly does she teach? To me basic computer skills in high school would be software - like Word, Excel, Powepoint ect.. She is not teaching in a techical school so hardware issues are probably not what she deals with in her classroom nor is spyware/adware issues. Her district probably has computer people that deal with those situations. If she called you into her house than she knew that she needed help with items like that.

I really don't know her curriculum or what she does in her classroom,but if you did not see her teach you cannot say whether she does not know her subject matter. In California Basic Computer skiils are just that skills children need to be able to work on their home computers. Freshman learn how to manover several programs like Word Excel Powerpoint ect.... so they can give presentations in class and write papers. Without knowing her curriculum you just cannot judge.

Also as other writer said sometimes school districts "request" that you teach classes that you are unfamilar with and that you have to learn while doing. Again you don't know the situation and cannot judge.

[Unregistered]

When I was an undergraduate student I worked at as a supplemental instructor for a community college along with a friend here in St. Louis. He possesed a masters in math while I was just finishing my batchelors in math education. My friend noticed his students were struggling with the class while mine were more successful. He asked me why we had such opposing outcomes. This is basically what I told him.

You're a master of math and can probably solve most of the world's problems mathematically. You know way more math than I will ever know. However, I understand how children learn and can design lessons to meet their diverse needs. I cater my lessons to meet all of the learning modalities of my students.

The bottom line is: He knew his math and could deliver it to some students. I knew my students and could take most of them to the level they needed to be at.

[Unregistered]

I agree with you. There are many teachers teaching computers who have been thrown into the position without proper training. That is a sore point with teachers trained in business education. We feel teachers trained in business ed. should be teaching keyboarding and computer classes--not teachers just because they use the computer and think they know how to use it when they don't. I could go on! You would be a great teacher. Unfortunately many schools are doing away with business education programs. Look into different schools in your area and persue your passion.




Let me start by apologizing for the harsh title of this thread. My main goal was to attract people to read my story. I admire anyone who wants to teach and can do it well. My frustration lies in something a little bit more complicated. Allow me to begin with my back story:

I am a 25 year old male who graduated from a 4 year college with a Business degree and a concentration in Information Systems. I have been in the business workforce for roughly 2 years. Currently I work for a large mortgage company managing their databases. My main purpose at this job is to process updates to all the different aspects of a mortgage. From a technical standpoint it is a really boring job with no chance to move up within the company.

I am passionate about computers and technology; I have been since a child. However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

For the past several months I have taken the necessary steps to get my NJ teaching certification and to enter the NJ alternate route program. At the same time I have been looking for different teaching positions online and come to the realization that teaching jobs that have something directly to do with computers are few and far between.

What really frustrates me, and is the main purpose of my post, is one teacher I ran into while working a side job fixing computers in the home. This teacher is teaching basic computer skills at the high school level. This person is completely unfamiliar with basic computer terms. I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

Now if you teach English, math, social sciences or any other subject that does not directly deal with computers than I would be perfectly OK with incomprehension of basic computer terms. My entire point is that this woman is teaching directly from some book with no overall knowledge of what she is telling students. On top of this she is taking a job away from someone like me who could do a much better job teaching.

I know this must sound selfish but I feel that teachers like this do more harm than good. There is a real opportunity to do good in the lives of children, but when people see teaching as nothing more than a paycheck it angers me to no end.

If you are still with me in my ranting then I thank you and I ask that you evaluate what you are doing as a teacher and how it could be affecting a child’s life. If teaching is nothing more than a paycheck to you then please consider that damage you are doing to scores of young minds.

And to all those teachers that make a real difference in some students lives, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[mehta1ce]

I do not believe any teacher is stupid; some may need to master a few skills. The development of the skill of being a great educator takes patience and practice. Different people have different life experiences as well as life expectations. So what works in one group of students will not necessarily work with another. Classroom management is a great way to maintain order to facilitate the learning process. You can be an expert in your field but if you can't communicate with your students, they will not learn from you. Students must also be able to apply the knowlege to real life. Using rules and formulas in a classroom is great, but where the rubber meets the road is if those skills can be translated into a useful life skill.

[Unregistered]

There's no point in using "communication is more important" as excuse for not having technical knowledge. A good teacher is both an expert in the field and an excellent communicator with students. You should be good in BOTH. If there's something else a teacher should have, then that teacher SHOULD HAVE IT.

There's also no point in using "the system ****************s" as an excuse for not having the right teachers doing the right jobs. If the system is inadequate, it's something to be ASHAMED of, it's problems that needs to be addressed to immediately, not something you can tell yourself "Oh this is not my area so it's okay if I ****************."

If you're capable of bringing the students, in a semester's time, to a level far beyond what the course requires, then it's better to do so than to stick to the curriculum. More education is never a bad thing. To allow room for this, just having enough knowledge to teach the curriculum is NOT enough.

If there are better teachers than you in your field, and you're not constantly trying to improve yourself, then you are not a good teacher. Good teachers are passionate about the subject, constantly aspiring to be excellent, has a fundamental love for the idea of learning itself, are excellent at getting ideas across to students, and hold a large, ever-increasing pool of knowledge for the students to learn from. Of course it's okay to be average, but you shouldn't be proud of being average because anyone can be average.

Of course, what I said, in reality, are very difficult to get to (if you think it's not difficult then awesome :-D), but they serve well as a goal all teachers should be striving for.

[Chocolate_New_Orleans]

There's no point in using "communication is more important" as excuse for not having technical knowledge. A good teacher is both an expert in the field and an excellent communicator with students. You should be good in BOTH. If there's something else a teacher should have, then that teacher SHOULD HAVE IT.

There's also no point in using "the system ****************s" as an excuse for not having the right teachers doing the right jobs. If the system is inadequate, it's something to be ASHAMED of, it's problems that needs to be addressed to immediately, not something you can tell yourself "Oh this is not my area so it's okay if I ****************."

If you're capable of bringing the students, in a semester's time, to a level far beyond what the course requires, then it's better to do so than to stick to the curriculum. More education is never a bad thing. To allow room for this, just having enough knowledge to teach the curriculum is NOT enough.

If there are better teachers than you in your field, and you're not constantly trying to improve yourself, then you are not a good teacher. Good teachers are passionate about the subject, constantly aspiring to be excellent, has a fundamental love for the idea of learning itself, are excellent at getting ideas across to students, and hold a large, ever-increasing pool of knowledge for the students to learn from. Of course it's okay to be average, but you shouldn't be proud of being average because anyone can be average.

Of course, what I said, in reality, are very difficult to get to (if you think it's not difficult then awesome :-D), but they serve well as a goal all teachers should be striving for.

so where do you buy those rose-colored glasses you are wearing?? :confused:

[Cactus Jack]

I am in a similar situation as you, in an alternative teaching program but I haven't come across any really dumb teachers who do a poor job. But I had some very ineffectual ones when I was in school here in Fort Worth in the 1970s.
Put things in perspective. The computer teacher who you assisted did not take that job from you. She is just keeping the seat warm. Texas is allegedly requiring all teachers to be well qualified (certified) in their area of teaching. I take it you live in New Jersey which has a reputation for corruption, patronage and other illegal activities in the public sector. Parts of Texas do also (we just had a major shake up in the Fort Worth ISD and have a new superintendent).
This techology "teacher" may have been hired based on who she knows or she may sadly have been the most qualified applicant for the job at the time it was available.
You may have heard this before, but: Being angry doesn't help. Just be confident that if she got the job you surely can when one is available.
If you can be certified to teach math you could get hired easier and use your computer skills there to set up a network for students at your school to use.
Another thing, have you thought about training teachers to use technology? Does the education bureaucracy have such a program in your state? Texas does and I wouldn't be responding to your post if they didn't require me to learn all this stuff.
Good luck, and don't take offense at what I said about NewJersey. The singer song writer John Gorka is from there, in fact he wrote a funny song about being from New Jersey.

[Unregistered]

I am a 30 year teacher of a technical content area. I have to agree with the original post that not knowing "what a USB drive is" demonstrates a dangerous lack of basic knowledge, regardless of the level of a computer class.

Teaching pedagogy is as equally important as content knowledge, and is represented as such by the states who require ongoing education for teachers to remain certified.

The real tragedy here is that school districts often place a teacher - perhaps an English teacher who is computer proficient -- in such a role as this or tv or journalism, just to expand elective offerings. This is not (and should not) be an attack on the teachers, but rather the way in which some districts disregard curriculum content standards and professional development.

I understand the proficient-posters frustration, which came out as an attack, but is probably more a statement about school administrators.

[Unregistered]

I myself have worked in the school system as a teachers aide and I have to
say that there are both good teachers and those that feel it's "just a job".
Unfortunately, the teachers I've worked with needed an aide because they
couldn't do the job themselves. I have two children and when my son came
home and said his teacher told him he was just teaching for the money, that
he hated children that was a blow to my mind. Teachers like this should not be teaching!! To those of you who are wanted to actually teach children, I applaude you. To those others, I'm feel sorry that you couldn't have succeeded doing what you really wanted to do. If teachers could actually teach using a lesson plan throughout the whole year and not teach for these
government standardized test, then it might be easier on some of these teachers. Parents also need to help in this process of children learning. If
a child has homework, parents need to help the child if they need it. If a child gets in trouble at school and it's a legit reason, the parent needs to step up and back up the teacher if the child was disruptive or violent or whatever. If we want an educated future world, we all need to do our part.

[Kruegs1982]

If teachers could actually teach using a lesson plan throughout the whole year and not teach for these
government standardized test, then it might be easier on some of these teachers. Parents also need to help in this process of children learning. If
a child has homework, parents need to help the child if they need it. If a child gets in trouble at school and it's a legit reason, the parent needs to step up and back up the teacher if the child was disruptive or violent or whatever. If we want an educated future world, we all need to do our part.

I completely agree with you except on one part: "If teachers could actually teach a lesson using a lesson plan" It's not that teachers are unable to teach using a lesson plan, its that there is so much emphasis on these standardized tests that we've lost track of why we are actually here. Principals (in my school district anyway) and the like have turned their focus completely towards these standardized test to the point where we are forced to teach to this test and we are forced to stop instruction at least one month before this test to review for the test.

The reason this focus has shifted is solely because of $$$$$$$$$. We get this incentive pay if our students do well on this test. As teachers we worked our butts off for this test. We used our conference period to tutor students, we stayed after school for tutoring everyday and we ended up raising our passing rate 5 percentage points. This is great and wonderful except it still wasn't good enough for our principal because we didn't meet the states guidelines for being rated "recognized" which would mean more money for our principal. We didn't get a thank you or even a pat on our back for what we did all year. She just gave us another job of analyzing where we went wrong. I know this bad on my principal's part but it just shows where the focus has gone.

As a teacher I HATE standardized tests. It doesn't always show what the students know, especially in math, and it doesn't mirror the real world in any way. Plus students with test anxiety almost always fail these tests. I would love to be able to do more hands on math activities with my students and take enough time for them to actually learn the material but with the focus shifted and my job on the line, I really can't. It's one of those things that looks good on paper when the students do well. It shows immediate results but I believe, in the long run, it is detrimental to our student's education.

[Unregistered]

I completely agree. It is our job to teach the students, but not to teach to a test. I feel this accomplishes nothing. It is trouble for the teachers and the students don't like them as well.

[Unregistered]

I stumbled upon this thread, and I know it is old, but I just have to respond. How bitter most of you sound. The tone of voice used in your replies makes me cringe. Yes teachers are constantly questioned and beaten down about an umpteen number of things, but to reply with such anger makes me ashamed of being a teacher. Getting angry about retorts etc. only lowers yourself to the other person's level. You can respond informing the person about the way things may have happened and straighten things out, but it doesn't have to be with a hatchet in hand. I only hope that these teachers do not carry their anger into their classrooms, as I have seen some do - arguing topics of teacher bashing with students. I have been in teaching for 35 years and have seen many changes, but I am here to help kids achieve greatness and no comments or criticisms are going to ruffle my feathers. A simple comment to an ill informed individual is - try it, if you think it is so easy.

To the person you sent the original message - sometimes teachers don't have a choice as to what they teach. The principal says you are teaching English and whether you have any experience teaching English or not, you have to teach it or look elsewhere for a job. That is the way it is right now and unfortunately it will stay that way until funding for education changes.

Teachers create and mold the minds of our future there is not greater profession.

[Unregistered]

I have to agree with the original post. Anyone that is teaching on a secondary level should know what a USB port is. I teach secondary reading and find a computer an important part of the everyday class. It is one of the ways to encorporate learning in the class. Kids understand computers and are more willing to read stories right off the computer screen than from a book. It doesn't matter that the words are the same...they feel more comfortable in front of a screen than in front of a book. This may be a sad fact....BUT whatever works! Like the saying goes "the ends justify the means."

[Unregistered]

I have to agree with the original post. Anyone that is teaching on a secondary level should know what a USB port is. I teach secondary reading and find a computer an important part of the everyday class. It is one of the ways to incorporate learning in the class. Kids understand computers and are more willing to read stories right off the computer screen than from a book. It doesn't matter that the words are the same...they feel more comfortable in front of a screen than in front of a book. This may be a sad fact....BUT whatever works! Like the saying goes "the ends justify the means."

[Unregistered]

The original person who wrote this post has said that the teacher was hired specifically to teach about computers. She was not put in a position of having to teach a subject she was not familiar with. So it seems she applied for a job in teaching computers knowing full well that she did not know a lot about them. Not knowing what a USB device is pretty damaging in my eyes. Why would you want to get up in a room full of teenagers and just read from a book, knowing ahead of time that if the students strayed from the book you would not be able to answer questions. She was just doing it for a paycheck. I do not believe the poster was trying to bash all teachers just the teachers that just treat it as a job not an opportunity to teach those less in formed about a subject they are passionate about.

Teachers should be highly qualified. Yes it is hard to find teachers of specialized or "new" subjects like computer science but individuals should not apply for jobs they know they are unqualified for. What a waste of a paycheck and a waste of time for those kids.

Even if she were hired for say teaching Microsoft Office applications, she should still have a basic knowledge of other things dealing with computers, like how to burn a CD or how to email various things. A USB devise falls in the category or basic computer knowledge now-a-days.

I think a lot of these teachers are getting bent out of shape because they do not know what a USB device is or maybe they are not as proficient in there subjects as they should be.

The person was venting his frustrations beause he could not get a job that he would have had more knowledge in when a much less qaulified person had the job.

If our teachers do not continue to update themselves on kowledge in there subjects how can you expect to teach kids in your areas. No matter how long you have been teaching there will always be more to learn. Teachers should have a thrist for learning that they can pass onto the kids they teach.

And I am figuring that this thread will continue and people will repost that the teacher may have been forced into the job, so this is all a waste of time but oh well. Please excuse the typos.

[Unregistered]

I am not, by nature, a nit-picky individual but what is up with 90% of the posters on this forum (and a great majority of this 90% being teachers) with the misuse of their, there and they're?? It is rampant! For instance, the poster above this one-----jeez people!

[Unregistered]

I would first like to say that I am not overly computer savvy but I can stuble my way around it. I have been the student of the teacher you described, or at least someone equally not qualified. I had to fix her somputer when it froze because she didn't know what to do. If any one had a question in the class she would tell them to look it up in the book. I had to answer everyone's question. I was forced to do her job and not get paid for it.

If you wuld like to contac me feel free
kelly9588@sbcglobal.net

[Unregistered]

As a reading specialist who has also acted as substitute or co-substitute in various K-12 classes, I've had plenty of opportunities to witness teachers with their sparkly new teaching degrees who ended up weeping at the end of each day and swearing that they'd never be able to manage a class. I've also seen plenty of non-degreed 'teaching assistants' handily manage large classfuls of high risk kids with EBD.

There is a set of skills that are helpful in class management, but any number of regular old moms who boast no more than a high school diploma are perfectly capable of displaying those skills. Some of these skills can be a matter of instinct and/or personality, and most can be learned - but they are easily learned by a few days or weeks of observation and practice under a competent teacher, through practical experience.

Expertise and enthusiasm for a subject, however, is a totally different thing, and it can NOT be learned in a few weeks, or emulated by someone with a 'core general knowledge'. Just about anyone can manage a classroom, given support and a small amount of training. Not everyone can inspire in their students an enthusiasm for learning, or a thirst for knowledge of a particular subject. That, too, can be a matter of instinct and/or personality, but mostly it is learned through long experience and/or study in a specific subject - and that you do not get with a teaching degree.

You are right that expertise in a subject is only one part of the equation for success in teaching in secondary school - but the same can be said for class management, and neither is bestowed upon a person with that teaching license. Your students are lucky that you know your subject AND have class management skills - but there are plenty of people who haven't had a single class in educational theory (or even been to college) who can say the same.



what you don't understand, is because you are an expert in your subject, that is merely only 1 part of the successful equation it takes to become a good teacher in secondary. You have to go back for the classroom management part of teaching. We had a college professor come to our highschool to teach English. She rattled off just as much creditials as you just did. A doctorate, 20 years teaching at a university, this and that, but when she was put into a 9th grade english class, she fell flat on her face and was told not to come back after Thanksgiving. She would leave crying everyday. She had no clue why the kids were like that, after all, she was 'the most qualified' for the position.

She'd tell a college class "read chapter 4 at home so we can discuss it next class" and the entire class would

She'd tell a high school class the same thing, and 1/30 would. So now, her next day's lesson plans were shot because 29 kids are sitting there like lumps, bored, and when highschoolers get bored, they disrupt.

good thing I know my subject, AND have classroom discipline.

[Unregistered]

it's unfortunate that she is unknowledgeable in her content area. It doesn't mean she is a bad teacher. Speaking from personal experience in public eduation for 2.5 years, most students don't want to learn. If she is able to connect with her students in a postive manner, then she is still doing a service.

On the other hand, stupid people kill me.

If you're really passionate about wanting to teach, you'll get there.
Best of Luck!!!!!

[Unregistered]

As I read the responses I am in shock and laughing. I currently teach high school and I am the mother of 2 high schoolers.

To the post that said that one hour with a bad teacher is better than 10 with MTV I am in shock. So, as long as the child is in school it doesn't matter that the instructor doesn't know the material?

People who do not know the material should not be teaching! I work very hard to know what I am teaching and making sure the students understand and I expect the same from my children's teachers.

Maybe the reason "most students don't want to learn" is because they have teachers who do not know what they are doing. Teenagers are intelligent people who can tell when a teacher is clueless.

[Unregistered]

"As I read the responses I am in shock and laughing. I currently teach high school and I am the mother of 2 high schoolers.

To the post that said that one hour with a bad teacher is better than 10 with MTV I am in shock. So, as long as the child is in school it doesn't matter that the instructor doesn't know the material?

People who do not know the material should not be teaching! I work very hard to know what I am teaching and making sure the students understand and I expect the same from my children's teachers.

Maybe the reason "most students don't want to learn" is because they have teachers who do not know what they are doing. Teenagers are intelligent people who can tell when a teacher is clueless."

I completely agree. I am not a teacher, infact I am still in high school. (Don't ask how I ended up on this website.) We have a few teachers in our school who simply teach from books. I've asked them questions, and just had blank looks in return. One of our teachers was replaced by another because the class complained that they simply weren't learning.

Teachers who obviously don't know what they're doing should be made to go back and train more in their subjects, before being able to teach children.

(This is not a general complaint about teachers. I think it's a nice job, and it does make all the difference if you know what you're talking about)

[Unregistered]

wtf??? i cant be bothered to read ur story pfft

[Slauhaus]

I am a high school technology teacher with 12 years of experience in three schools, two states, and I can speak with some experience when it comes to teachers and tech. I also run a computer business in my "off time" and have many teachers as clients. I find a great reluctance on the part of many teachers to learn any more about technology than they absolutely have to. As a rule, most teachers (in my experience) will not show up for training or staff development, and will do nothing but complain about he amount of weight given to technology in the classroom. If you are a teacher that embraces technology and has taken the time to learn how to use it, good for you, but in fact you are the exception, not the rule. Most of the teachers that I have come in contact with, including the "Technology" teachers, are deficient in their basic knowledge of computing, and they can't be bothered with taking the time to learn what they should. I have done my best to drag the teachers around me "kicking and screaming" into the 21st century, but I am tiring of the exercise.

Technology should be given a great deal of attention by all instructors, not just those tasked to teach it as their "concentration". Technology is not the bacon on the "Double Bacon Cheeseburger" of education, it is the grill used to cook the food.

[Unregistered]

Slauhaus, I LOVE that metaphor, and may have to borrow it if you don't mind:) I, too, have been teaching information systems courses for 15 years at the high school level. For about five years, I had one 'free' period during the day to serve as the school technician, along with 5-7 students I would train while they worked on A+ (PC Repair) Certification. It never ceased to amaze me how many times I would go to work on a computer that "wasn't working", only to find that the monitor wasn't turned on, the cpu wasn't turned on, or the surge protector was off, and the list of "problems" goes on and on. It was VERY rare that I would find a real problem beyond what most tech people would consider the ABC level. This was in the late 90's and early 2000's. After 5 years, I'd had enough and told my administrator to find someone else for the job. Were these people ignorant? Absolutely not! But they were being asked to work with something they were unfamiliar with, and a little bit afraid of. I"m pretty sure if I were placed in front of say an x-ray machine and told to use it, I'd have no idea what to do. I might be able to figure some things out if I played with it for a little while, but until I received some training, I'm sure an x-ray technician would think I was pretty stupid.

The sad fact is, many teachers in the technology field have been, in my experience, the former office education teachers who started out teaching on manual and electric typewriters (yes, they really existed not too long ago), and were supposed to change with the times. That's why I loved the idea of technology as the grill used to cook the food - so many times, technology people don't teach students to be able to adapt their knowledge to the constantly changing technology. It isn't enough to be able to use one particular software, because it's already obsolete by the time it's on the market. And as for anyone knowing everything there is to know about technology, I say it's impossible! The greatest programmer in the world doesn't know as much about utilizing software, or the one with the most Microsoft certifications may not have a clue about graphic design. The original poster will learn soon enough that none of us know nearly as much as we think we do, especially around teenagers. They may have grown up with computers, unlike us, but they usually have no idea how to really use it for a career beyond e-mail and internet searches. Rather than getting frustrated with people who perhaps don't know as much as I do about technology, I've found that it's far better for both me and our education system to try and train them as much as I can find time for, so that they don't keep returning to me with the same questions, and also so that they feel a sense of accomplishment that spurs them to keep working with this 'newfangled' tool they're supposed to be incorporating into their teaching. Technology is not the key to a students' learning, the teacher is still the key who must learn to use all the tools, including but not limited to technology, that are at his/her disposal.

[Unregistered]

If I say I teach Spanish and you say ?como esta ud? and I don't understand..........then I should NOT be teaching Spanish...........there is a core vocabulary to every subject and "USB external drive" is a term that a computer teacher should know...........the person who wrote the original post is correct; computer teachers have often been pulled from other subjects and are NOT always computer-literate--not all of them, but some of them. That is a fact in most schools and that person is also correct in saying that such a teacher is not qualified/competent in his/her subject. Someone I know was offered such a position in an effort to make him full-time; he needed another course to teach. He quit teaching b/c he was not comfortable teaching what he did not know-the administration would have allowed it! We should all support public education; but let's be honest when we know that there are things that should and could be changed. I agree with the person who started this line.

[Unregistered]

Maybe you should spend your free time learning how to spell!

[Unregistered]

As I read the responses I am in shock and laughing. I currently teach high school and I am the mother of 2 high schoolers.

To the post that said that one hour with a bad teacher is better than 10 with MTV I am in shock. So, as long as the child is in school it doesn't matter that the instructor doesn't know the material?

People who do not know the material should not be teaching! I work very hard to know what I am teaching and making sure the students understand and I expect the same from my children's teachers.

Maybe the reason "most students don't want to learn" is because they have teachers who do not know what they are doing. Teenagers are intelligent people who can tell when a teacher is clueless.


I am with you, same boat, same opinion and I was just... in disbelief at all those defending a poor teacher. Why do teacher's get such a bad rap? Because there are other 'teachers' out there that are pulling the rest of us down. 9 out of 10 teachers can work their buns off but it's the 1 that doesn't who will get the attention. The negative attention that will then be applied to those other 10. We should not defend a 'poor' teacher. Period. And yes, there are many aspects to teaching, many. But content knowledge should be core.

[Unregistered]

Let me start by apologizing for the harsh title of this thread. My main goal was to attract people to read my story. I admire anyone who wants to teach and can do it well. My frustration lies in something a little bit more complicated. Allow me to begin with my back story:

I am a 25 year old male who graduated from a 4 year college with a Business degree and a concentration in Information Systems. I have been in the business workforce for roughly 2 years. Currently I work for a large mortgage company managing their databases. My main purpose at this job is to process updates to all the different aspects of a mortgage. From a technical standpoint it is a really boring job with no chance to move up within the company.

I am passionate about computers and technology; I have been since a child. However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

For the past several months I have taken the necessary steps to get my NJ teaching certification and to enter the NJ alternate route program. At the same time I have been looking for different teaching positions online and come to the realization that teaching jobs that have something directly to do with computers are few and far between.

What really frustrates me, and is the main purpose of my post, is one teacher I ran into while working a side job fixing computers in the home. This teacher is teaching basic computer skills at the high school level. This person is completely unfamiliar with basic computer terms. I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

Now if you teach English, math, social sciences or any other subject that does not directly deal with computers than I would be perfectly OK with incomprehension of basic computer terms. My entire point is that this woman is teaching directly from some book with no overall knowledge of what she is telling students. On top of this she is taking a job away from someone like me who could do a much better job teaching.

I know this must sound selfish but I feel that teachers like this do more harm than good. There is a real opportunity to do good in the lives of children, but when people see teaching as nothing more than a paycheck it angers me to no end.

If you are still with me in my ranting then I thank you and I ask that you evaluate what you are doing as a teacher and how it could be affecting a child’s life. If teaching is nothing more than a paycheck to you then please consider that damage you are doing to scores of young minds.

And to all those teachers that make a real difference in some students lives, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Hey Kid,
Welcome to the world of teaching. You will soon delve into the dinosaur computer technology that teachers and students have to teach and learn from. It all comes down to money, honey. The teacher you observed was probably originally a typing teacher, and as new laws go, only certain teachers can teach technology. There is no doubt you have more knowledge in the new technology, you should, you will need it. Don't be too harsh on the teachers who are trying to manage new standards, " leave no children behind", keep up with technology and the required professional development, usually mandated by the school boards and administrators and not by the teachers and their needs. Is a USB really basic computer? Keep up the passion, and I hope you are good at writing grants. Those teachers who are there for the paycheck are not usually well-accepted by their peers, but like any other occupation everyone has their fair share of slackers. I find it truly amazing how so many people are so quick to recognize the bad examples and not see the good.
Good Luck,
A Science, Biology, and Gym teacher in Michigan

[Unregistered]

"Dieing" is really spelled "dying"....your form of the word refers to die casting, mold making etc....

Let's not be too hard on this teacher. Yes, she has no business teaching technology. It has been my experience, however, that she may not have been given a choice. Often in public education a teacher is told be a principal..."You are going to teach 'thus and so'...." and the teacher is not given any options. She/he may protest that they do not feel qualified to teach a particular subject, but that is not up to them to decide. I see this happen time and time again.

You will probably have a difficult time in public education...but give it a try. Teachers with passion are something we can all use.

[Unregistered]

Before you judge her, why don't you sit in on a weeks worth of classes to see if you're really fit to become a teacher. Be a helper, not a degrader. I've had horrible computer tech support people, and I don't get mad at them, because I don't know all the circumstances.
Perhaps the teacher was thrown into the situation as they needed someone to teach the class.
So what if she has to learn the content 15 minutes prior to class or whatever she has to do. Im sure in that book for teaching kids technology, they use minimal terminology. Instead of "external USB hard drive...blah blah blah..." maybe it's "the smaller plug". Who really cares...they're learning nonetheless.
And also, don't come down so hard on teachers. You can't even spell DYING.
Why don't you ask her what else she teaches, and how long she's had to teach that subject before you judge. You help prove a point of mine that techies think they're godlike because they can restore a computer and they get to be all smug.
You also prove they lack social skills and graces.
Grow up.

[Wendell II]

Clearly you're frustrated because you were unable to land a tech teaching job. Well, my advice to you is to continue looking, if that is your desire, or, as was mentioned earlier, do you just want to bash teachers. You see son, even at this stage in your life, true teachers still support and and encourage! Good luck and maybe I'll see you in the classroom someday.

[Unregistered]

As an outsider to the field of education, I understand where you are coming from and the frustration you experienced. However, education is not such a cut and dry situation. Often, many teachers find themselves teaching outside of their field, or at least in an area which was not their major for many reasons.

Also, if you are frustrated working with adults who are incompetent, you probably will have difficulty with the students. If no one has informed you, classroom management is not taught in a college classroom and is one of the most difficult things to learn. Especially, if you already have a preconceived notion of how students should act. Never mind the fact, that reading comprehension is a major set back for many of our students.

I think if you would talk to others who have left the business world to take on teaching, you might find that their experiences were not so glamorous. The "Teach for (you name the state)" leaves the new "teacher" at a disadvantage in so many ways. Many have barely made it through their first year, and did not return. It takes more than a degree to be a teacher, it has to be the very core of who you are.

I don't want to discourage you, but things aren't as they seem. I would suggest that perhaps you might substitute to get a closer view of the bigger picture.

[Unregistered]

I came from industry and I am a business teacher. You have no idea what is like to teach if you have never done it. Just b/c you know terms does not mean you are a good teacher!!! Don't express what you think unless you have the experience and are seasoned at what you are doing. You sound like a confused USB, I mean SOB







Let me start by apologizing for the harsh title of this thread. My main goal was to attract people to read my story. I admire anyone who wants to teach and can do it well. My frustration lies in something a little bit more complicated. Allow me to begin with my back story:

I am a 25 year old male who graduated from a 4 year college with a Business degree and a concentration in Information Systems. I have been in the business workforce for roughly 2 years. Currently I work for a large mortgage company managing their databases. My main purpose at this job is to process updates to all the different aspects of a mortgage. From a technical standpoint it is a really boring job with no chance to move up within the company.

I am passionate about computers and technology; I have been since a child. However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

For the past several months I have taken the necessary steps to get my NJ teaching certification and to enter the NJ alternate route program. At the same time I have been looking for different teaching positions online and come to the realization that teaching jobs that have something directly to do with computers are few and far between.

What really frustrates me, and is the main purpose of my post, is one teacher I ran into while working a side job fixing computers in the home. This teacher is teaching basic computer skills at the high school level. This person is completely unfamiliar with basic computer terms. I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

Now if you teach English, math, social sciences or any other subject that does not directly deal with computers than I would be perfectly OK with incomprehension of basic computer terms. My entire point is that this woman is teaching directly from some book with no overall knowledge of what she is telling students. On top of this she is taking a job away from someone like me who could do a much better job teaching.

I know this must sound selfish but I feel that teachers like this do more harm than good. There is a real opportunity to do good in the lives of children, but when people see teaching as nothing more than a paycheck it angers me to no end.

If you are still with me in my ranting then I thank you and I ask that you evaluate what you are doing as a teacher and how it could be affecting a child’s life. If teaching is nothing more than a paycheck to you then please consider that damage you are doing to scores of young minds.

And to all those teachers that make a real difference in some students lives, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Unregistered]

LOL It's hilarious how the juvenility comes out of us high school teachers at the possibility of someone making an 'attack' on our prestigious vocation! You all know that although it sounds like there's a bit of resentment coming from this young man, he is speaking on some level of truth! How many of us are teaching more than one subject? How many of us are teaching subjects that we went to school to teach? C'mon, it's imperative that we know the basics of each subject that we teach. And sorry, but that Comp teacher should know what a UBS external hard drive is! Here's the deal, if we don't know the material ourselves we can not effectively teach students about it, now can we? And I've been doing this job for 9 yrs; I know that there are many aspects to teaching that his young man know NOTHING about. However, here's the point: we all work with some teachers that you KNOW should have found another 'prestigious vocation' because teaching was NOT for them. However, they're still at the job, being ineffective. So, take all that he said with a grain of salt. But don't hack the kid; because there's is also a grain of truth in it also.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;7520]I advise you to find some great evil in the world and devote yourself to its overthrow. Leave teachers alone. Public education is the best things going and one hour with the worst teacher you describe is better than 10 years of MTV or Raven, and it's free with no commercials!
Railiing against teachers who don't meet up to your personal standards of excellence is a waste of everyone's time since we've heard it all ad nauseum from one of the regulars here.
Teachers seem to be everyone's favorite target but it's like hunting bunnies with an Uzi. Why not criticize bad lawyers, or bad politicians? No why so many children have asthma? Heard about global warming? Loose nukes in the former USSR. Get a life and do some good.[Quote]!

[Unregistered]

thank you . what gives him the right to say that, he has never been in her class.

[Unregistered]

The original poster provides an interesting insight into how many perceive teachers. He had an experience that, unfortunately, we as teachers have all come across.

What I don't understand is why are we getting defensive? He speaks a truth we have all come across. We see it everyday; we all know who the teachers are that are treading water. We also know we are helpless to do anything about it.

There is no shame is stating that some teachers are better than others. It's like that in every profession and we are no different.

[Unregistered]

I teach science to 10th graders. I do believe certain terms are required when teaching in that particular field. Ignorant may be a better term over "dumb". I am ignorant when it comes to computers. I am dumb when it comes to calculus. :)

[Unregistered]

CSU, Stanislaus (in California) has a Masters in Educational Technology. They teach teachers how to integrate their subject matter with technology. This might be a good program for you. Just check it out! You are correct that many teachers are basically ignorant about technology, but I believe that this is all starting to change.

[Unregistered]

As a teacher in a classroom, I do believe that the author of the original message has a point. We must be absolutely honest with ourselves, there are teachers out there who simply babysit and don't teach. Then, there are teachers that truly teach. However, our flawed education system seems to want to look good instead of be good so we ask more from our teachers than they can offer and insist they teach a course for which they are not qualified. And the argument ends by "it is cheaper." So, some teachers have no choice but to learn as they go or babysit. In that instance, we as teachers are set up to fail. I fall into both of the latter categories.

I teach theatre and I can tell you every last detail of the art from history to design to dramaturgy. However, the school needed someone to teach philosophy and they picked me. Why? I have no idea. I haven't had an hour training on the subject. I've never read The Republic and I am already over my head. I've pleaded my point, but to no avail. I must teach it.

By all means, we really should demand more from our teachers, but on the same token, we should demand the same from our administrators. So, I caution where you put blame, until you teach and see the whole picture. If you get your computer position as a teacher, I just hope they don't "ask" you to teach Latin.

[Unregistered]

Well first good luck in NJ and obtaining your teaching license as you go through student teaching and all the other courses some of us went through who did not have a bachelor's degree in ed. I too once bashed teachers and now I am one working on a second master's degree. I have taught at magnet schools here in Las Vegas and now I work at a 'at risk' school where the high school kids who are as tough as nails need someone like you. Full of passion and information. Teaching is tough whether its 1st grade or high school. Most teachers deserve the pay you would receive in NJ, the "big bucks" reference www.njschooljobs.com with the e-mail address of Look@njschooljobs.com. Here you will find where a teacher could eventually make a $100,000 ++ salary!! NO JOKE. I try to teach my content of chemistry and earth science, where 20 minutes of work turns out to take my teenage class an hour or more to do. Consistently. As you will find out someday the job can be frustrating and low and behold that kid you dread who antagonizes you everyday, you will see for nine months. HAH. Young man, oh so smart in computers, look before you leap into another career. Substitute teaching won't help much either since the kids won't be yours everyday. Much like joining the Marines, this job is not for everyone. Make a plan, work it and don't give up.

[Unregistered]

I'm a teacher in the UK, teaching English and English Lit to students aged 11 - 19. I happened across this site whilst searching for new teaching ideas this morning - Saturday. I'm sure I don't have to labour the point that the vast majority of us (in whichever country we work) spend virtually every waking moment of our lives during term time working at some level. We plan, we mark, we research, and we contend with an ever increasing mountain of paperwork; we train teachers (the trend in the UK is for new teachers to be trained 'on the job'), we undertake training to comply with 'new' initiatives, and we liaise with parents and outside agencies, such as the police and the social services. I'm sure I've forgotten something. Oh, yes. We spend another seven hours a day keeping classes of around 30 students interested and focused enough to learn what we have spent so long preparing.

For most of the time, we keep the plates spinning, although teacher stress is a recognised problem, with helplines and counselling services in place to try to ensure the drop out rate doesn't get any higher. From what I've read on these forums, teachers in the US have exactly the same levels of dedication and exactly the same problems with which to contend.

I'm fascinated to know whether the original poster, RemtheWanderer, has found his metier. I hope he completed his training course and found a job. I hope he has discovered how wonderful it is to see students making progress as a direct result of his hard work, and has found a way to live with the fact that, no matter what he does, some students are not going to succeed in educational terms. I hope he has found himself surrounded by a supportive team of dedicated teachers, each working hard to learn what is necessary to teach whatever it is new headteachers, new initiatives, and new syllabi demand. I hope he finds himself working in a school where parents support his efforts.

And I hope he still has time to fit in his side job.

[Unregistered]

Speaking of unqualified teachers......"Dieing????" I realize that you want to teach computer tech and not English, but every teacher should have a basic grasp of the English language. It is the first thing that students and teachers see, and like it or not, you will be judged on the basis of grammar and spelling!

[Unregistered]

Well if you can do a better job, then do it. I bet you wouldn't last a week. Leave teachers alone they work way to hard for very little pay for someone like you to pass judgment.

[Unregistered]

I think the person that started this thread had an important point. When I first read it, I thought he was just talking about a regular teacher, and I thought, who cares?! But then I noticed that he was talking about a technology teacher. So yeah, maybe she should know a little more about the subject she is teaching, but then again I've had English teachers that couldn't spell to save their lives, even more so if they were rushing to teach a lesson. I still think that she should probably be more aware of technology devices and the such. Technology is however one of those things that are always going to change. I am not a technology guru, but maybe she's stuck with out of date computers that don't have those ports.

My next point however is not about the ability of the teacher, but the ability of the future teacher that posted this thread in the first place. I could see in just the little bit of what you wrote that you may not be the most patient person in the world. So what do kids need, a rude teacher that calls students stupid and moves on to a different classroom because the present kids are ignorant, or a nice teacher(which maybe she wasn't nice either but you get the point) that helps students learn atleast the basics and also gives them help with other issues.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that she should know more about her subject. Of course she should. Why should anyone stop.

But I think you(and many of the people that replied to this thread) should also learn about patience and respect. I've been in school almost my whole life(as a student of course) and professionalism will make or break you.

[Unregistered]

I do hope you get a job as a teacher. I understand your point of view. I agree with you in some aspect. Yes, you are right that a computer teacher should have a background knowledge to the parts of a computer and what have you, but do keep in mind that all public schools have a curriculum to follow to ensure TAKS success. Thank you for posting that message...I am glad I am not the only one that feels that way.


--JP

[Unregistered]

It is important that we really speak the truth about knowledge of computers. It isn't impossible for a teacher to teach computer classes without having the knowledge of hardware. It may be possible that this teacher has software background and all that is required of their curriculum is teaching the basic skills of computers (Keyboarding). I'm in the technology field and our field is very broad. It is not common that you find a software/hardware/network person wrapped up into one.

Currently I'm teaching in a High School for Arts and the daily challenge is keeping the students engaged in learning (math, science and communication arts). I really believe that most teachers have the children's best interest at heart, but their are some that have burned out and need to move on.

Before we place judgement upon a person because she has very little knowledge of hardware, try and be fair. The best way for you to do this is teach in a urban public school (outdated text books and little or no supplies). Substituting is the best way to walk in the shoes of a teacher.

[Unregistered]

I would encourage the person "amazed at the stupidity of some teachers" to find a career that is not teaching (obviously they could not handle parents, students, administration, etc.) and to learn to spell!

[sammy_8]

Let me start by apologizing for the harsh title of this thread. My main goal was to attract people to read my story. I admire anyone who wants to teach and can do it well. My frustration lies in something a little bit more complicated. Allow me to begin with my back story:

I am a 25 year old male who graduated from a 4 year college with a Business degree and a concentration in Information Systems. I have been in the business workforce for roughly 2 years. Currently I work for a large mortgage company managing their databases. My main purpose at this job is to process updates to all the different aspects of a mortgage. From a technical standpoint it is a really boring job with no chance to move up within the company.

I am passionate about computers and technology; I have been since a child. However, in the time I have been working I have come to realize that my personal passion for technology is dieing. I contribute this due to being so mentally tired after dealing with the incompetent people I work for/with. Therefore, I have decided that in order to save my sanity I should attempt to find a job teaching some aspect of technology so that I can pass my passion on to someone.

For the past several months I have taken the necessary steps to get my NJ teaching certification and to enter the NJ alternate route program. At the same time I have been looking for different teaching positions online and come to the realization that teaching jobs that have something directly to do with computers are few and far between.

What really frustrates me, and is the main purpose of my post, is one teacher I ran into while working a side job fixing computers in the home. This teacher is teaching basic computer skills at the high school level. This person is completely unfamiliar with basic computer terms. I mentioned the words “USB external hard drive” and it brought a confused look to her face. I mentioned something about virus and spyware removal and I was met with the same blank stare.

Now if you teach English, math, social sciences or any other subject that does not directly deal with computers than I would be perfectly OK with incomprehension of basic computer terms. My entire point is that this woman is teaching directly from some book with no overall knowledge of what she is telling students. On top of this she is taking a job away from someone like me who could do a much better job teaching.

I know this must sound selfish but I feel that teachers like this do more harm than good. There is a real opportunity to do good in the lives of children, but when people see teaching as nothing more than a paycheck it angers me to no end.

If you are still with me in my ranting then I thank you and I ask that you evaluate what you are doing as a teacher and how it could be affecting a child’s life. If teaching is nothing more than a paycheck to you then please consider that damage you are doing to scores of young minds.

And to all those teachers that make a real difference in some students lives, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.


"To have love is be be able to love"

[Eflclassroom]

I concur with the general tone of the replies -- a teacher should have competency in the subject material OR don't teach it at all (except in special cases).

I do think that with technology, we should give educators better training. It is the future and we better take off our analogue dungaries and wear some digital spandex. Students learn digitally.

David

[Unregistered]

Dear colleagues, I'm shaken by the call and response of this thread. We all need to take a deep breath. The techie is right about content knowledge. Ask W. and the NCLB crew. But he's also wrong. I hear that in schools, certified teachers are often assigned outside content area. What are we each doing to help each other? I'm an English maven, you know, the dead language. There were so many grammatical errors among the response threads that I lost count. As a nation, we are in deep, serious...something. As individual teachers, I think we all need to step up our own game and do what we can to help, not criticize the next guy. I mean, we have administators to do that. :) But then, I'm just a jail teacher, so what do I know?
God's grace to you all.

[Unregistered]

It's not really the teacher's fault. When a new class comes in, the teacher has no idea of how much the students know and how they were taught. One class can be ahead by an entire book while the other class has to start at the very beginning and the teacher has to teach where the previous one left off and that curriculum can be out of his/her field. It depends on how the student is able to understand what the teacher is saying and how he/she learns by visual, oral, hands-on, or whatever so it's not entirely the teacher's fault.

[Unregistered]

Just playing the devil's advocate, this teacher could have been hired to teach another subject area and for some reason was "forced" to teach computers. I am a high school math teacher and some how in the afternoon they assigned me to teach a claymation course. I was shocked, but it was not a mistake on the schedule; I was new and they needed someone to fill that position. At first I wasn't even sure what claymation was, let alone how to teach it to a group of teenagers. Let's just say it involves clay, a camera, and a computer and I had to learn fast. Now I love the class and so do the students, but it was not easy at first. Hopefully you met a teacher who is in the process of learning how to teach that subject and she will improve.

[Unregistered]

When I taught tech, people would say, "Oh kids know all about computers."
No, sorry, wrong.



This is why a tech teacher is necessary. The ideal teacher is not a "teacher" at all, in my book, but a "facilitator" who guides students into learning situations. The computer room is, for me, the ideal classroom.



And that is my, very experienced, opinion.


Absolutely - parents and non technology literate people always over estimate the skills of the kid who is seen as the geek. I cannot tell you how many college grads I have turned down for a job based on them not being a "whiz at computers" or an "expert" because they have a piece of paper suggesting they are.

I now teach technology (5 -12) after many long years in communications and internet industries and yes - your words as a facilitator ring true. Technology is an all encompassing word that goes beyond IM, PS3, XBOX, Chatrooms and email. Technology is more than changing a hard drive or a video card or perhaps doing a OS re-install. Worse still just because a kid has MySpace account doesn't make them good web designers - duh!

Ask any school age kid what the internet is and compare their answers with the correct one! - It really is an eye opener of how little they really know.

So I'll put my 2 cents with yours.

[Unregistered]

As a person in a classroom, I can say I have been where you are and know how you feel, however, once you get in the public school and see how little support or training you actually get, I think your tune will change. You will look back on this in a few years and marvel at your naivety.

[Unregistered]

I currently teach keyboarding, tech systems, and computer programming. I graduated with a degree in computer information systems and teaching certification in computer science. I understand totally what the original poster is saying. I am probably one of the most qualified teachers in my subject area at the school, but I teach one of the most basic subjects. I have found that the other teachers have acquired their positions because of being here for so long. They don't have the computer knowledge I have. It is like everything else in education. The more years you put in the more you get. It is not based for the most part on knowledge. I do not discredit the other teachers because they do all have degrees, but I do not think it is fair that just because I have only been teaching for 4 years and someone else has been teaching for 20, they make more money than me. I'm sure this will stir some people up.

[Unregistered]

Wow, some of you really went after the author of the original post.
I can only speak for my district, but many times the tech. person is an aide, not a certified teacher. These aides are expected to learn a whole lot about computers in a very short time. Qualified people can not be hired because the pay is so awful.
We also have a technology instructor. This teacher does not teach regular classes, but assists teachers and students with computer projects. These kids, with the help of this teacher are turning out fabulous products, and learning a lot in the process.
I would encourage the original post to get to know the district's quirks, before passing judgement. Also, look around the district, there may a job that fits your wants and needs that you don't even know about. In addition, that job may not be at the highschool level, consider middle school or elementary.